Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Stella Tortoise said:
turbobloke said:
Stella Tortoise said:
camel_landy said:
Welsh Labour - The party for the hard of thinking.
M
For balance the tories in Westminster haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory have they?M
For even more balance on this particular topic, Sunak has stated his opposition to blanket "hare-brained" road calming and safety schemes, specifically including 20mph zones, adding that he doesn't want to see such measures "forced" on drivers.
For clarity I think nearly all politicians are t
ts, I also put those who slavishly follow their policies in the same category.Yes they're mostly useless and self-serving to a good approximation.
bigothunter said:
Then roads wouldn't be fit for our children to play on 
But seriously, the assumed right of way for pedestrians and cyclists which has come from misinterpretation of road user hierarchy, is not doing their safety any favours. We need to return to common sense.
It’s not misinterpretation. Pedestrians are allowed free access to highways and byways, cars and drivers have to be licensed to travel on them. That is how it is and always has been (motorways and ‘special roads’ need a law to restrict pedestrians and others).But seriously, the assumed right of way for pedestrians and cyclists which has come from misinterpretation of road user hierarchy, is not doing their safety any favours. We need to return to common sense.
Pica-Pica said:
bigothunter said:
But seriously, the assumed right of way for pedestrians and cyclists which has come from misinterpretation of road user hierarchy, is not doing their safety any favours. We need to return to common sense.
It’s not misinterpretation. Pedestrians are allowed free access to highways and byways, cars and drivers have to be licensed to travel on them. That is how it is and always has been (motorways and ‘special roads’ need a law to restrict pedestrians and others).Pedestrians acting irresponsibly does not improve their chance of survival.
bigothunter said:
Pica-Pica said:
bigothunter said:
But seriously, the assumed right of way for pedestrians and cyclists which has come from misinterpretation of road user hierarchy, is not doing their safety any favours. We need to return to common sense.
It’s not misinterpretation. Pedestrians are allowed free access to highways and byways, cars and drivers have to be licensed to travel on them. That is how it is and always has been (motorways and ‘special roads’ need a law to restrict pedestrians and others).Pedestrians acting irresponsibly does not improve their chance of survival.
A 70kg carcass through the windscreen as a result of stepping into the road without looking, inside a motorist's thinking distance, won't help car occupants' chances of survival either.
bigothunter said:
I was referring to the culture change since road user hierarchy was introduced. Pedestrians casually stepping into roads without regard for traffic and expecting drivers to ensure their safety. Incidence has definitely increased.
The political correctness road safety manual was put to the test around here a few years back. The side roads along a main road with a cycle path were paimted with give way markings so that cars joining the main road had to give way to cyclists (and pedestrians) before they could join the traffic on the main road. When plans were published then approved, there were warnings including the local newspaper letters page, that this was risky. In theory a cyclist could travel along the pavement/cycle path continuously past all the junctions with vehicles on the side roads having to give way.It took a matter of weeks for a paper boy cylist to be killed cycling along the cycle path across a side road junction. They had priority but died. The driver was probably disembowelled, there wasn't much news about their fate (I may have missed it) but the give way signs disappeared fast as the Tufty Club / Green Cross Code made a come-back.
bigothunter said:
Pica-Pica said:
bigothunter said:
But seriously, the assumed right of way for pedestrians and cyclists which has come from misinterpretation of road user hierarchy, is not doing their safety any favours. We need to return to common sense.
It’s not misinterpretation. Pedestrians are allowed free access to highways and byways, cars and drivers have to be licensed to travel on them. That is how it is and always has been (motorways and ‘special roads’ need a law to restrict pedestrians and others).Pedestrians acting irresponsibly does not improve their chance of survival.
bigothunter said:
I was referring to the culture change since road user hierarchy was introduced. Pedestrians casually stepping into roads without regard for traffic and expecting drivers to ensure their safety. Incidence has definitely increased.
Pedestrians acting irresponsibly does not improve their chance of survival.
You've got stats for that increase, right?Pedestrians acting irresponsibly does not improve their chance of survival.
bigothunter said:
Evanivitch said:
You've got stats for that increase, right?
This is a chat forum not an academic thesis or technical paper.
turbobloke said:
The political correctness road safety manual was put to the test around here a few years back. The side roads along a main road with a cycle path were paimted with give way markings so that cars joining the main road had to give way to cyclists (and pedestrians) before they could join the traffic on the main road. When plans were published then approved, there were warnings including the local newspaper letters page, that this was risky. In theory a cyclist could travel along the pavement/cycle path continuously past all the junctions with vehicles on the side roads having to give way.
It took a matter of weeks for a paper boy cylist to be killed cycling along the cycle path across a side road junction. They had priority but died. The driver was probably disembowelled, there wasn't much news about their fate (I may have missed it) but the give way signs disappeared fast as the Tufty Club / Green Cross Code made a come-back.
And then people complain when cyclists don't use the cycle path and instead ride on the road.It took a matter of weeks for a paper boy cylist to be killed cycling along the cycle path across a side road junction. They had priority but died. The driver was probably disembowelled, there wasn't much news about their fate (I may have missed it) but the give way signs disappeared fast as the Tufty Club / Green Cross Code made a come-back.
Somehow drivers generally seem to manage to give way at a road. If they don't give way to you, there's typically a fair bit of space to take evasive action.
If you have to give way at every side turning on a path, then riding on the road is massively more convenient.
camel_landy said:
Evanivitch said:
Errr... That is NOT a vote for the rolling out of a 20mph default, that's a vote for the pilot and consultation.M
Evanivitch said:
It's a vote to progress the 20 mph default. That's clear as day. Why didn't they vote against it at that stage?
They voted to gather the evidence for evaluation... Fact finding... It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.Based on information from the pilot, they can then make an INFORMED decision regarding rolling out nationally.
So where's the evidence the Welsh Tories voted to roll this out NATIONALLY?
M
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