Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
Randy Winkman said:
I'm not watching so might be missing the point - but in the civil service job I did when email was first introduced in 1996, some people used to give their log in password to another person in their team and ask them to log in and look at their emails when they were on leave. And that was on their own computer as everyone had a fixed desk and their own desktop computer. That might be irrelevant to the point in question but I'm just saying we should be careful to judge things by current standards. As I say, apologies if I'm missing the point.
It's mostly 2010 onwards emails and documents. Back when i was working in IT on large systems in 94 to 04, you still had "robust" policies regarding logins at the companies i was involved with. By 2010 i would expect even a s
tshow like PO had a handle on this.Randy Winkman said:
vaud said:
732NM said:
The file was sourced from his own physical hard drive from his own computer.
Are you sure? The path certainly refers to his login profile, but a profile name would be created on the PAs PC if she logged in to his account from her PC?PRTVR said:
Randy Winkman said:
vaud said:
732NM said:
The file was sourced from his own physical hard drive from his own computer.
Are you sure? The path certainly refers to his login profile, but a profile name would be created on the PAs PC if she logged in to his account from her PC?PRTVR said:
I would have thought giving somebody else your login details would have been a sackable offence and no grounds for not knowing what was happening, surely that is the whole point of individual logins.
But here you have a senior lawyer who doesnt know how to print a document and dictates emails.vaud said:
PRTVR said:
I would have thought giving somebody else your login details would have been a sackable offence and no grounds for not knowing what was happening, surely that is the whole point of individual logins.
But here you have a senior lawyer who doesnt know how to print a document and dictates emails.Sway said:
PRTVR said:
Randy Winkman said:
vaud said:
732NM said:
The file was sourced from his own physical hard drive from his own computer.
Are you sure? The path certainly refers to his login profile, but a profile name would be created on the PAs PC if she logged in to his account from her PC?Wills2 said:
Is there a lawyer in the country that hand on heart doesn't know the basics when it comes to instructing an expert witness (in that they know there is a process to follow) surely that is covered as part of the law degree, and if you're asked to do it you'd open up the law books and check what you're meant to do to refresh your memory.
Not one solicitor or barrister involved in the Misra case apparently knew how to instruct an expert witness, it's a blatant lie and an insult to the inquiry and their profession,
Would seem they fail to understand basic laws ! - https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/solicit...Not one solicitor or barrister involved in the Misra case apparently knew how to instruct an expert witness, it's a blatant lie and an insult to the inquiry and their profession,
Edited by Wills2 on Friday 3rd May 12:35
Randy Winkman said:
At the start it might well have not have been and even if it was, people still did it without even knowing it was a big deal. Anyway, if my dates are wrong it is less relevant but it might alter what the "offence" was.
He's a legal bod. There's no way on earth he doesn't understand, or been informed, of specific policies relating to passwords and the like. Especially when PA just has access to his email account via their login.I've never known of anyone giving out their password in my entire working career.
Sway said:
Randy Winkman said:
At the start it might well have not have been and even if it was, people still did it without even knowing it was a big deal. Anyway, if my dates are wrong it is less relevant but it might alter what the "offence" was.
He's a legal bod. There's no way on earth he doesn't understand, or been informed, of specific policies relating to passwords and the like. Especially when PA just has access to his email account via their login.I've never known of anyone giving out their password in my entire working career.
I've walked into CSR offices and found passwords taped to the front of monitors, IT offices that had passwords written up on whiteboards. people are generally s
t when it comes to passwords.
Sway said:
I've never known of anyone giving out their password in my entire working career.
I used to be a trustee (non exec) for a major university and served on the Audit and Risk Committee with a technical advisory angle (cyber, technology, etc, etc) to in this case, support the CIO in getting the funding, prioritization and support from his executive as they were being negligent.The CIO had huge problems with the post-it note issue. The issue of staff using postit notes to put their password next to the screen...
+ no encryption on devices
+ no enforced password expiry
+ no automatic screen locking
+ lots of devices not under management
+ no 2FA even on key administrator machines
simon_harris said:
Sway said:
Randy Winkman said:
At the start it might well have not have been and even if it was, people still did it without even knowing it was a big deal. Anyway, if my dates are wrong it is less relevant but it might alter what the "offence" was.
He's a legal bod. There's no way on earth he doesn't understand, or been informed, of specific policies relating to passwords and the like. Especially when PA just has access to his email account via their login.I've never known of anyone giving out their password in my entire working career.
I've walked into CSR offices and found passwords taped to the front of monitors, IT offices that had passwords written up on whiteboards. people are generally s
t when it comes to passwords.PAs have logins to banking/travel/cards, etc. - but I've never known one to have PC login, because it's just not needed.
Sway said:
Definitely worked with 'very senior people' - but not in IT!
PAs have logins to banking/travel/cards, etc. - but I've never known one to have PC login, because it's just not needed.
One of our senior execs got into trouble as his EA was logging in using his ID to approve expenses, do mandatory trainings on his behalf, etcPAs have logins to banking/travel/cards, etc. - but I've never known one to have PC login, because it's just not needed.
I'm almost feeling that this mornings events with Jarnail Singh have hit the gold vein of corporate responsibility and culpability in the POL Horizon scandal. I can only think that Paula Vennells is sitting down right now with a huge team of legal people trying to work out how she swerves the inevitable that is coming.
Unfortunately as the former chief executive officer of Post Office Limited from 2012 to 2019, the buck must stop with her and no amount of 'I can't recall' and 'it wasn't my job' is going to cut it. I can probably sum up the enquiry right now in a few sentences, but hopefully Sir Wyn Williams will be able to call out all the porkies and cover-ups such that prosecution of the key players in both the POL and Fujitsu, can take place.
Unfortunately as the former chief executive officer of Post Office Limited from 2012 to 2019, the buck must stop with her and no amount of 'I can't recall' and 'it wasn't my job' is going to cut it. I can probably sum up the enquiry right now in a few sentences, but hopefully Sir Wyn Williams will be able to call out all the porkies and cover-ups such that prosecution of the key players in both the POL and Fujitsu, can take place.
There's absolutely no doubt from the 'evidence' today that the post office were working closely with lawyers to coordinate how to avoid all this coming out.
Even down to writing personal statements for witnesses.
I appreciate it's not court, however if it was, this is 'beyond reasonable doubt.'
Even down to writing personal statements for witnesses.
I appreciate it's not court, however if it was, this is 'beyond reasonable doubt.'
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