The 'Bladerunners' are right

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Discussion

HustleRussell

24,758 posts

161 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Lotobear said:
Good on them, It's about time we started getting a bit more 'French' about stuff - if more did that we might not end up with such crappy ideas/overeach

Poll tax riots anyone?
Fully agree! Can't help but admire the French.

Otispunkmeyer

12,622 posts

156 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Panamax said:
kambites said:
Believed by whom exactly? Someone monumentally clueless, I suspect.
You suspect wrong.

Even in China, where facial recognition cameras are used to fine pedestrians who jaywalk, only a relatively small area of the country has close surveillance of what's happening on the ground. Nowadays you're on camera pretty much anywhere you go in UK. I was walking up a suburban road today and the houses were literally bristling with CCTV. Whenever there's a crime where do the police go? - Asking the public for dashcam footage and CCTV.
I thought they couldn't usually do anything with CCTV footage? Certainly when my catalyst got nicked and the whole thing was caught on CCTV, including the chaps face as he passed through the gatehouse at work (yes, its a secure carpark and the numbskulls on the gate just waved this guy through without checking if he was who he said he was) police said they couldn't do anything with it. Had the face, the car he was driving, the plates etc etc.

A lot of CCTV is also far too grainy and pixelated to use as proof for anything. It just seems a bit pointless in reality. I mean you get robbed and all you have is a grainy video of you being robbed. It doesn't change anything, you're still missing your stuff and the perps are still getting away with it. In my case, all I learned was that they came on site, and 8 minutes later, left with my catalyst in their boot. Not really all that useful in the grand scheme of things. Thankfully work paid to have it put right! Which I guess was one useful outcome of the CCTV. But as far as the police were concerned, nothing they could do with the footage.

smn159

12,769 posts

218 months

Monday 14th August 2023
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Cold said:
Yep, and this is why the ULEZ only targets those who live in London. If you're visiting from elsewhere you won't be charged.
So what? Do you expect to vote on stuff that every local authority does even if you don't live there?




joshcowin

6,815 posts

177 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Cold said:
Yep, and this is why the ULEZ only targets those who live in London. If you're visiting from elsewhere you won't be charged.
I'm visiting from Kent in a few days time, am I exempt? NO I have to pay.

JagLover

42,511 posts

236 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
smn159 said:
Khan was re-elected in 2021, winning against a candidate pledged to stop ULEZ expansion.

Londoners clearly want them.
He wasn't proposing to extend them beyond the North and South circulars when he was reelected.

Castrol for a knave

4,726 posts

92 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
C5_Steve said:
ingenieur said:
What do you mean 'how long did that last' ?

They're still being attacked: https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2022/12/...
I'm sorry, clearly still "sticking it to the man" up in Shropshire.

(for those of us old enough to remember the introduction of the Gatso, same groups made the sane noise when they launched. Made chuff all difference)
To be honest, all the drivers here in Shropshire are too pissed to worry about speed cameras.

stuttgartmetal

8,108 posts

217 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
ULEZ is just the gateway to the placing of cameras across London boroughs.
The scheme is undermined in several ways, and its result is purely funding. Facts support miniscule air quality improvements, this isn't smog clouded LA, the UK is windy.
The cameras are not of the standard needed, they're not robust, in other words cheap. Once ULEZ becomes embedded and more money accrues, a more robust system [more expensive] will suddenly be installed. Its implementation is not 100% concrete yet, so Khan's hedging on the outlay.
Its all about pay per mile, which will be here in five years. The choke hold on drivers remains. The cash cows milked.


Edited by stuttgartmetal on Monday 14th August 17:33

ingenieur

Original Poster:

4,097 posts

182 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Faust66 said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
What happened to new users having to wait a year/make 1000 posts before being allowed to venture in to NP&E?
Probably the same thing that happened to the 2-term limit for London Mayor.

Gareth79

7,718 posts

247 months

Monday 14th August 2023
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smn159 said:
JagLover said:
smn159 said:
Is there a list of public infrastructure that it's OK to destroy? .
Those parts that have been installed to oppress the people rather than serve them.
You know that they can track you using cellphone towers presumably - are they fair game as well? How about Facebook and the banks - should their offices be firebombed?

Do you expect your children to be asking what you did in the great Gammon uprising in years to come?
The dude is posting behind 5 VPNs.

stuttgartmetal said:
ULEZ is just the gateway to the placing of cameras across London boroughs.
The scheme is undermined in several ways, and its result is purely funding. Facts support miniscule air quality improvements, this isn't smog clouded LA, the UK is windy.
The cameras are not of the standard needed, they're not robust, in other words cheap. Once ULEZ becomes embedded and more money accrues, a more robust system [more expensive] will suddenly be installed. Its implementation is not 100% concrete yet, so Khan's hedging on the outlay.
Its all about pay per mile, which will be here in five years. The choke hold on drivers remains. The cash cows milked.
Pay-per-mile is completely impractical to implement via. cameras.


Edited by Gareth79 on Monday 14th August 17:35

bitchstewie

51,593 posts

211 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
smn159 said:
Rise up Sheeple!

Is there a list of public infrastructure that it's OK to destroy? There's a pedestrian crossing on my way to work that slows me down sometimes. I expect that Khan installed it personally...
This hehe

valiant

10,346 posts

161 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
So vandalism is good so long as we agree to the cause?



Gotcha.

ingenieur

Original Poster:

4,097 posts

182 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
smn159 said:
ingenieur said:
Arguably it's not public infrastructure if the means by which it came into being aren't of the people.
Well it was installed by an elected authority and it's expansion was backed by an elected government, so not sure what you mean by that
I think you do know what I mean by that but you're pretending not to understand on purpose.

If people really were asked they would have said 'no'. Supposedly when they got a load of negative responses to their consultations the results were thrown in the bin.

The Uxbridge byelection had in some ways taken the form of a proxy vote on ULEZ and caused Labour to lose a seat they thought they had a chance of winning. Sir Kier Starmer is straddling his fence and pouring cold water on it. Various councils have mounted legal challenges against it.

I don't think you can seriously claim that there's nothing to see here.
Sean Baily stood against Khan on a platform of stopping the ULEZ expansion.

https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/17453762.sh...

Londoners were in no doubt that a vote for Khan was a vote to expand ULEZ.

Or does 'the will of the people' only count when it suits?
I think it does only count when it suits. Cuts both ways, doesn't it. Since people are objecting to it now but it is going to be implemented before the next election the mayor and his supporters are saying the will of the people doesn't mean anything because we're doing it and you can't stop us.

Sean Bailey was a terrible candidate, the charisma of an old mid-sized Mitsubishi.

I think with issues of this nature where something really significant is going to happen there is a tendency for British public to get hoodwinked into going along with it because really they're used to nothing really changing so it is a surprise when issues like this come up.

Brexit is a perfect example of this. People voted time after time for political parties, both Labour and Conservative who brought us tighter and tighter into the European Union to the point where I sovereignty had all but completely disappeared.

You could use the same defence but in the end the will of the people was at odds with what the officials and politicians were doing. They knew this as they always dressed it up as a financial benefit because they knew that was an easy sell to voters.

Grumps.

6,503 posts

37 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Faust66 said:
Pickle_Party_247 said:
Morons committing vandalism and wasting public money. Anyone kicking off about ULEZ charges is a complete child in any reasonable person's book. What's next, vandalising DVSA offices because they charge VED?
What happened to new users having to wait a year/make 1000 posts before being allowed to venture in to NP&E?
Thread was started in GG and was then moved to NPE.

bitchstewie

51,593 posts

211 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
So vandalism is good so long as we agree to the cause?



Gotcha.
Give it a few days to run but I'd love to see the Venn diagram between the people advocating locking up protesters on the JSO/XR and "lefty protesters I don't like" thread and the people saying what this lot are doing is absolutely fine.

valiant

10,346 posts

161 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
I seem to have missed these vigilantes for justice taking down cameras when the ulez was expanded to the North/South circular borders.

Maybe their mums told them not venture too far from home then…

Gareth79

7,718 posts

247 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Biggy Stardust said:
kambites said:
Panamax said:
UK is believed to be the most "monitored" country on this planet.
Believed by whom exactly? Someone monumentally clueless, I suspect.
UK has circa 25% of the world's CCTV cameras.

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/cctv/
Your link doesn't mention that statistic, and it doesn't pass the sniff test of being plausible. It mentions 5.2 million cameras in the UK, which would suggest only 20 million cameras globally? Hikvision alone sell over 50 million cameras per year.

ingenieur

Original Poster:

4,097 posts

182 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
valiant said:
I seem to have missed these vigilantes for justice taking down cameras when the ulez was expanded to the North/South circular borders.

Maybe their mums told them not venture too far from home then…
Or maybe people were generally okay with the anti-car sentiment inside the ring roads where public transport is passable but don't stand for it so much in areas more reliant on mechanised personal transport.

stuttgartmetal

8,108 posts

217 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Gareth79 said:
Pay-per-mile is completely impractical to implement via. cameras.


Edited by Gareth79 on Monday 14th August 17:35
Not once there's a camera in every lamppost

ingenieur

Original Poster:

4,097 posts

182 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Gareth79 said:
smn159 said:
JagLover said:
smn159 said:
Is there a list of public infrastructure that it's OK to destroy? .
Those parts that have been installed to oppress the people rather than serve them.
You know that they can track you using cellphone towers presumably - are they fair game as well? How about Facebook and the banks - should their offices be firebombed?

Do you expect your children to be asking what you did in the great Gammon uprising in years to come?
The dude is posting behind 5 VPNs.
Morally speaking it's about 'choice'. You can choose not to be on Facebook. You can choose to leave your mobile phone at home. I don't think the banks allow tracking, I'm of the understanding they only reveal account information when they're trying to smear a politician or if the police are undertaking a specific investigation.

Being monitored, everyone.. not just those with non-compliant vehicles on every drive you take in London straddles a breaking point. I think it's a big step from having a smattering of cameras dotted about, on high streets in particular. From that to a situation where you create a little log file on Kahn's computer every time you leave your house is a bit too much.

grumbledoak

31,560 posts

234 months

Monday 14th August 2023
quotequote all
Seems like an appropriate response to the so called democracy we live under. If people can support Just Stop Oil blocking roads and those SUV tyre deflator people, I don't see why others cannot support this.