Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
LowTread said:
They're appealing to their demographic though
Raise the tax free threshold to lift pensioners with private income out of tax
Reduce/remove NHS waiting lists
Stop immigration
Remove wastage in govt spending (which in their terms will mean diversity, mental health, social care, etc)
Get 20% of benefit claimants back into work (somehow)
Basically it's "get the young working more to pay for your better retirement and health care".
Only the young are already disadvantaged and disenfranchised.
And the contradiction in their manifesto is alarming. Stopping immigration AND ending NHS waiting lists?? Really? Have you seen the list of dentists or doctors at your local surgery lately? How many names are from white-british people?
Apart from not realising that increasing the tax threshold will take most young working people out of paying tax altogether or that the many early retired NHS staff are likely to return if they don't have to pay tax on everything they earn you are spot on. Raise the tax free threshold to lift pensioners with private income out of tax
Reduce/remove NHS waiting lists
Stop immigration
Remove wastage in govt spending (which in their terms will mean diversity, mental health, social care, etc)
Get 20% of benefit claimants back into work (somehow)
Basically it's "get the young working more to pay for your better retirement and health care".
Only the young are already disadvantaged and disenfranchised.
And the contradiction in their manifesto is alarming. Stopping immigration AND ending NHS waiting lists?? Really? Have you seen the list of dentists or doctors at your local surgery lately? How many names are from white-british people?
LowTread said:
They're appealing to their demographic though
Raise the tax free threshold to lift pensioners with private income out of tax
Reduce/remove NHS waiting lists
Stop immigration
Remove wastage in govt spending (which in their terms will mean diversity, mental health, social care, etc)
Get 20% of benefit claimants back into work (somehow)
Basically it's "get the young working more to pay for your better retirement and health care".
Only the young are already disadvantaged and disenfranchised.
And the contradiction in their manifesto is alarming. Stopping immigration AND ending NHS waiting lists?? Really? Have you seen the list of dentists or doctors at your local surgery lately? How many names are from white-british people?
Yep - All sounds great, and things appealing to an electorate, but they have no notion how to deliver any of it - It's all just dreams. For example removing wastage is meant ot realise #150Billion/year, from year 1, to enable all of the nice stuff. It is simply absurd. When they are subject to proper scrutiny in the election campaign they will collapse like a house of cards - Look what happened to Ben Habib when asked a direct question about thier strategy to stop immigrants.Raise the tax free threshold to lift pensioners with private income out of tax
Reduce/remove NHS waiting lists
Stop immigration
Remove wastage in govt spending (which in their terms will mean diversity, mental health, social care, etc)
Get 20% of benefit claimants back into work (somehow)
Basically it's "get the young working more to pay for your better retirement and health care".
Only the young are already disadvantaged and disenfranchised.
And the contradiction in their manifesto is alarming. Stopping immigration AND ending NHS waiting lists?? Really? Have you seen the list of dentists or doctors at your local surgery lately? How many names are from white-british people?
It's easy to offer the moon on a stick when you don't need to deliver it.
S600BSB said:
President Merkin said:
borcy said:
Wombat3 said:
Is anyone seriously against free school meals for kids that need them? I doubt it.
The problem with making that a much bigger/wider operation is that there is a cost, and knowing the daft way we do things in this country it will be far higher than it should be or needs to be.
Some daft (and likely underqualified) civil servant will give an inflated, minimum volume guaranteed contract to some behemoth like Sodhexo who will then take the piss royally by charging 15 quid a plate for inedible/unidentifiable slop, pizza slices you could tile a floor with and cold chicken nuggets you could use on a snooker table !!
It'll be hospital food only worse because you are not trying to feed 30 or 40 thousand people, there are just over 9 million kids in UK schools.
All these things would be great IF we could deliver them properly and companies didn't take the piss, but they can't and companies will and do.
I believe the cost of a school meal is about £2.40.The problem with making that a much bigger/wider operation is that there is a cost, and knowing the daft way we do things in this country it will be far higher than it should be or needs to be.
Some daft (and likely underqualified) civil servant will give an inflated, minimum volume guaranteed contract to some behemoth like Sodhexo who will then take the piss royally by charging 15 quid a plate for inedible/unidentifiable slop, pizza slices you could tile a floor with and cold chicken nuggets you could use on a snooker table !!
It'll be hospital food only worse because you are not trying to feed 30 or 40 thousand people, there are just over 9 million kids in UK schools.
All these things would be great IF we could deliver them properly and companies didn't take the piss, but they can't and companies will and do.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpr...
Makes for grim reading.
abzmike said:
Look what happened to Ben Habib when asked a direct question about thier strategy to stop immigrants.
I get your point, but worth pointing out that nothing 'happened' to him - he was simply articulating the nasty streak that runs through ReformYou only need to look at the FB profiles of some of the candidates chosen to represent them so see that he is not alone in this.
hstewie said:
President Merkin said:
Interested in the mindset that looks on at a government falling apart in real time over culture wars, an obsession bordering on the prurient with immigration and demonising the vulnerable & thinks what the country needs is this but more.
Looks like the electorate agrees with you so far. Interesting that the Greens have nearly doubled their number of councillors. On this trajectory they are surely on course to be the main challenger to Labour in a couple of parliaments. Always good to see smaller parties doing so well and providing much needed choice
smn159 said:
abzmike said:
Look what happened to Ben Habib when asked a direct question about thier strategy to stop immigrants.
I get your point, but worth pointing out that nothing 'happened' to him - he was simply articulating the nasty streak that runs through ReformYou only need to look at the FB profiles of some of the candidates chosen to represent them so see that he is not alone in this.
Wombat3 said:
Meanwhile, todays figures show civil service productivity has declined for the 3rd straight quarter.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpr...
Makes for grim reading.
I think that covers public sector rather than just the civil service.https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpr...
Makes for grim reading.
borcy said:
Wombat3 said:
Meanwhile, todays figures show civil service productivity has declined for the 3rd straight quarter.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpr...
Makes for grim reading.
I think that covers public sector rather than just the civil service.https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandpr...
Makes for grim reading.
borcy said:
Wombat3 said:
Of course you are correct - which makes the malaise even more widespread.
I suppose the question is then, are the figures correct. If so what's caused it and what to do about it. Its hard to see how frontline health/police/fire service & education staff are suddenly being measured as less productive or indeed how they could be.
Which leaves the administrative end of the public sector......
Meanwhile the PCS union is demanding a huge pay rise, longer holidays and a shorter working week with no loss of pay. Large swathes of public sector staff are known to be refusing to return to their offices (I believe HMRC is one of the worst offenders). The mindset is clear enough. They all want more for doing less.
Its dressed up as people wanting a better "work-life balance" whereas what they are actually taking is a better work-reward equation.
We also have extraordinary numbers claiming long term illness which can't be helping.
In a nutshell, the main cause (IMO) is working (or not) from home which started during the pandemic, coupled with weak management.
Correcting that requires management with some spine AND the tools to enforce changes.
Bad night for the Conservatives as expected, but perhaps an even worse night for Reform who may as well have not stood.
No councillors gained, even though they are the perfect place for Conservative voters to express frustration (as the Lib Dems have shown repeatedly, including last night).
In Lincolnshire's PCC election they got less than 15% of the vote, in what should be a good area for them and in an area (geographically and topically) that you would expect their base to get out.
If they can't do it now, they won't do it in the GE.
No councillors gained, even though they are the perfect place for Conservative voters to express frustration (as the Lib Dems have shown repeatedly, including last night).
In Lincolnshire's PCC election they got less than 15% of the vote, in what should be a good area for them and in an area (geographically and topically) that you would expect their base to get out.
If they can't do it now, they won't do it in the GE.
Wombat3 said:
Figures are from the ONS so give them the benefit of the doubt that they are probably on to something.
Its hard to see how frontline health/police/fire service & education staff are suddenly being measured as less productive or indeed how they could be.
Which leaves the administrative end of the public sector......
Meanwhile the PCS union is demanding a huge pay rise, longer holidays and a shorter working week with no loss of pay. Large swathes of public sector staff are known to be refusing to return to their offices (I believe HMRC is one of the worst offenders). The mindset is clear enough. They all want more for doing less.
Its dressed up as people wanting a better "work-life balance" whereas what they are actually taking is a better work-reward equation.
We also have extraordinary numbers claiming long term illness which can't be helping.
In a nutshell, the main cause (IMO) is working (or not) from home which started during the pandemic, coupled with weak management.
Correcting that requires management with some spine AND the tools to enforce changes.
I don't know how you measure the efficiency of the fire brigade etc. But it does include them and the rest of the public sector. I don't think focusing on the civil service exclusively is going to help unpick the numbers. Its hard to see how frontline health/police/fire service & education staff are suddenly being measured as less productive or indeed how they could be.
Which leaves the administrative end of the public sector......
Meanwhile the PCS union is demanding a huge pay rise, longer holidays and a shorter working week with no loss of pay. Large swathes of public sector staff are known to be refusing to return to their offices (I believe HMRC is one of the worst offenders). The mindset is clear enough. They all want more for doing less.
Its dressed up as people wanting a better "work-life balance" whereas what they are actually taking is a better work-reward equation.
We also have extraordinary numbers claiming long term illness which can't be helping.
In a nutshell, the main cause (IMO) is working (or not) from home which started during the pandemic, coupled with weak management.
Correcting that requires management with some spine AND the tools to enforce changes.
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