Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Has to be said a policy to 'tackle elitism' with guaranteed outcomes of greater elitism within the private sector and less resources for the state sector seems incredibly misguided.
Of course, this is how policy proposals should be viewed - instead it's just tribalist guff.
Blair dropping the assisted place scheme had a huge impact. This will increase it further. (and yes, the Tories should cop some flak for not reintroducing the assisted place scheme).
Of course, this is how policy proposals should be viewed - instead it's just tribalist guff.
Blair dropping the assisted place scheme had a huge impact. This will increase it further. (and yes, the Tories should cop some flak for not reintroducing the assisted place scheme).
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Love the way you pair pretend you're so concerned about class sizes at state schools.
When have either of you ever posted a single thread about it other than when Labour started talking about making private schools pay VAT?
What absolute Jackanory.
What an odd thing to say: it implies that one should only express opinions on topics that one has campaigned about previously. As you often say: weird. Oh yes, and it's deflection, another of your favourite accusations.When have either of you ever posted a single thread about it other than when Labour started talking about making private schools pay VAT?
What absolute Jackanory.
It also rather misses the point, which is that this is a daft Labour proposal that'll raise next to nothing and will place an unnecessary burden on state schools. It's the politics of envy rather than a sensible policy.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Love the way you pair pretend you're so concerned about class sizes at state schools.
When have either of you ever posted a single thread about it other than when Labour started talking about making private schools pay VAT?
What absolute Jackanory.
Is that the measure then stewie, presence on PH When have either of you ever posted a single thread about it other than when Labour started talking about making private schools pay VAT?
What absolute Jackanory.
Hants PHer said:
What an odd thing to say: it implies that one should only express opinions on topics that one has campaigned about previously. As you often say: weird. Oh yes, and it's deflection, another of your favourite accusations.
It also rather misses the point, which is that this is a daft Labour proposal that'll raise next to nothing and will place an unnecessary burden on state schools. It's the politics of envy rather than a sensible policy.
It may well be a daft policy it wouldn't be a priority IMHO..It also rather misses the point, which is that this is a daft Labour proposal that'll raise next to nothing and will place an unnecessary burden on state schools. It's the politics of envy rather than a sensible policy.
If Labour or any government said they were going to increase school funding to reduce class sizes I'm pretty sure that would be wrong too.
Sorry but I don't buy the concern about class sizes.
Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
My mrs is a secondary maths teacher. Class sizes are an absolute concern. There's no way Labour's policy won't lead to increased sizes in various areas (ours included). She's quite worried about this and is about as far left as you can reasonably get on the normal political scale.The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
Unsurprisingly then you do not have a clue about what you are on about. The education ecosystem is fragile in both camps.The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
It will not take a lot of kids moving from one system to the other to cause significant problems at both ends.
Law of unintended consequences - bypasses Labour as always. See G Brown, Pension tax raid, Gold sales etc etc for reference
(But for balance, see also G Osborne messing with the LTA & J Hunt arsing about with the Non Dom rules. Stupidity is not just the preserve of Labour ).
Wouldn't claim to be an expert but where I live I see thousands of new build homes and there aren't any more schools than there were 30 years ago.
If it turns out to be a massive issue then fair enough I'm wrong but I'm struggling to see how some percentage of six percent is going to be some kind of giant swamping of the education system.
If it turns out to be a massive issue then fair enough I'm wrong but I'm struggling to see how some percentage of six percent is going to be some kind of giant swamping of the education system.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
They pretty much do exactly that.The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
They built houses on a plot near me and the local primary school went to two form entry. Turned a village school atmosphere into an inner city feel in one school year.
A local private school closed a few years back and another one more recently. I haven't noticed the impact on local state school class sizes but the local state school jobs market for teachers went a bit crazy with strong competition for a handful of teaching jobs and qualified secondary school teachers going for primary school Learning Assistant jobs. Apart from one or two big names the private school sector is on a knife edge.
If you add 20pc cost to any industry it's going to shed customers and employees.
Absolutely mental, if they do it. Makes everyone's life slightly worse just to p
s off a handful of people.Having said all that I doubt they'll actually do it. Self harming policies like this are more the sort of thing an outgoing government does as a trap for incomers. (See also non doms.)
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
So disconnected you'd make a great education secretary. The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
Where is the noise about class sizes now or teachers paying for supplies out of their own pockets now or any number of things that are wrong with the state school system now?
If class sizes are genuinely held long-standing concerns fair enough and I apologise but I'm afraid I'm not convinced.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Wouldn't claim to be an expert but where I live I see thousands of new build homes and there aren't any more schools than there were 30 years ago.
If it turns out to be a massive issue then fair enough I'm wrong but I'm struggling to see how some percentage of six percent is going to be some kind of giant swamping of the education system.
Its about tipping pointsIf it turns out to be a massive issue then fair enough I'm wrong but I'm struggling to see how some percentage of six percent is going to be some kind of giant swamping of the education system.
It will not take much to force some parents out of the private sector
It will not take much to make some private schools non-viable (which will then disrupt the education of every child in a closing school).
It will not take much to disrupt the state education sector. Expecting them to do even more with no additional resources isn't very bright.
BikeBikeBIke said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
They pretty much do exactly that.The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
I suspect it's likely they all do that.
Edited by 768 on Friday 3rd May 17:49
768 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Correct I don't have children.
The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
They pretty much do exactly that.The idea that an army of ex-private school kids are going to swamp state schools is for the birds in the same way they don't automatically build new schools every time they build 100 extra houses on a field somewhere.
I suspect it's likely they all do that.
Edited by 768 on Friday 3rd May 17:49
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