Student Activism in the USA
Discussion
Some people are more equal than others… unsurprisingly this barely gets a mention..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68937775
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68937775
fizz47 said:
Some people are more equal than others… unsurprisingly this barely gets a mention..
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68937775
Probably because the Police in the USA and UK support Palestine.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68937775
The guy being arrested was a new type of punk? My apologies, I look forward then, to reading and observing their long and wide ranging cultural impact on music, art, philosophy literature and film which is about to hit the U.S like a cultural tidal wave of artistic and political change.
That is one reality.
The other reality is that these people are not student punks but a generation poisoned by and education system infected with Russian, Chinese influence and they won't actually create anything worthwhile, they will just burn things.
That is one reality.
The other reality is that these people are not student punks but a generation poisoned by and education system infected with Russian, Chinese influence and they won't actually create anything worthwhile, they will just burn things.
Edited by Carl_VivaEspana on Friday 3rd May 08:45
Carl_VivaEspana said:
The other reality is that these people are not student punks but a generation poisoned by and education system infected with Russian, Chinese influence and they won't actually create anything worthwhile, they will just burn things.
Much the same was said at the time of the student protests against Vietnam."To a commonplace man of limited intellect, for instance, nothing is simpler than to imagine himself an original character, and to revel in that belief without the slightest misgiving.
Many of our young women have thought fit to cut their hair short, put on blue spectacles, and call themselves Nihilists. By doing this they have been able to persuade themselves, without further trouble, that they have acquired new convictions of their own. Some men have but felt some little qualm of kindness towards their fellow-men, and the fact has been quite enough to persuade them that they stand alone in the van of enlightenment and that no one has such humanitarian feelings as they. Others have but to read an idea of somebody else’s, and they can immediately assimilate it and believe that it was a child of their own brain. The “impudence of ignorance,” if I may use the expression, is developed to a wonderful extent in such cases;—unlikely as it appears, it is met with at every turn."
-Dostoevsky, 'The Idiot'
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2638/2638-h/2638-h...
You can tell stupid people because they see everything through a political lens to decide the world for them, they think they are across the latest events, but they are just ducklings that imprint on a cat at hatching and now think they are one. Not one original thought in their heads, unknowingly hostage to bad actors and abstractions, and with the front of concern but the fervour of certainty that simply propels more conflicts.
In his book 'The End of History', Fukuyama described the peace-ification of the planet once everyone was in a liberal, democratic, egalitarian society, but right at the end he notes that when all is peaceful and calm, the eponymous 'end of history', people will still rebel against the system to rip it up and reinvent it simply out of boredom and the evaporation of natural purpose. We live at the apex of humanity in the EU and US, we have no mass graves or gulags, no starvation or torture squads, we even have socially constructed 'rights', it is a land of opportunity and safety nets, a system that perseveres despite the dubious competences of low grade politicians, but some ingrates constantly regurgitate it, spew it back as if they have a better idea or system - one they read in a book from 1867 or had a dream about when tripping, or, more perniciously, something dripped in their ear that they believed because everyone else in the class did.
The monster hunters though inevitably become the monsters they fight; 'I hate you for your hate speech, I'll battle you for peace, you will NOT be authoritarian'. If it walks like a cat and looks like a duck, it's a fervent political hostage, a human photocopier.
Nothing to see here kids except systemic brain damage.
Many of our young women have thought fit to cut their hair short, put on blue spectacles, and call themselves Nihilists. By doing this they have been able to persuade themselves, without further trouble, that they have acquired new convictions of their own. Some men have but felt some little qualm of kindness towards their fellow-men, and the fact has been quite enough to persuade them that they stand alone in the van of enlightenment and that no one has such humanitarian feelings as they. Others have but to read an idea of somebody else’s, and they can immediately assimilate it and believe that it was a child of their own brain. The “impudence of ignorance,” if I may use the expression, is developed to a wonderful extent in such cases;—unlikely as it appears, it is met with at every turn."
-Dostoevsky, 'The Idiot'
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2638/2638-h/2638-h...
You can tell stupid people because they see everything through a political lens to decide the world for them, they think they are across the latest events, but they are just ducklings that imprint on a cat at hatching and now think they are one. Not one original thought in their heads, unknowingly hostage to bad actors and abstractions, and with the front of concern but the fervour of certainty that simply propels more conflicts.
In his book 'The End of History', Fukuyama described the peace-ification of the planet once everyone was in a liberal, democratic, egalitarian society, but right at the end he notes that when all is peaceful and calm, the eponymous 'end of history', people will still rebel against the system to rip it up and reinvent it simply out of boredom and the evaporation of natural purpose. We live at the apex of humanity in the EU and US, we have no mass graves or gulags, no starvation or torture squads, we even have socially constructed 'rights', it is a land of opportunity and safety nets, a system that perseveres despite the dubious competences of low grade politicians, but some ingrates constantly regurgitate it, spew it back as if they have a better idea or system - one they read in a book from 1867 or had a dream about when tripping, or, more perniciously, something dripped in their ear that they believed because everyone else in the class did.
The monster hunters though inevitably become the monsters they fight; 'I hate you for your hate speech, I'll battle you for peace, you will NOT be authoritarian'. If it walks like a cat and looks like a duck, it's a fervent political hostage, a human photocopier.
Nothing to see here kids except systemic brain damage.
Edited by andy_s on Friday 3rd May 16:25
b
hstewie said:
Somebody add the Benny Hill music to that.hstewie said:Is not Soros, buy NYPD are saying that "someone" is behind the scenes
https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-gives-chilling-upd...
"...NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Operations Kaz Daughtry also spoke to reporters, saying there is "somebody" or "some organization" behind the massive movement where students and other protesters are taking over schools and academic buildings, chanting antisemitic slogans, resisting law enforcement and administrators’ orders to disperse, and getting away with little to no consequences..."
Useful idiots indeed...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-gives-chilling-upd...
"...NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Operations Kaz Daughtry also spoke to reporters, saying there is "somebody" or "some organization" behind the massive movement where students and other protesters are taking over schools and academic buildings, chanting antisemitic slogans, resisting law enforcement and administrators’ orders to disperse, and getting away with little to no consequences..."
Useful idiots indeed...
andy_s said:
"To a commonplace man of limited intellect, for instance, nothing is simpler than to imagine himself an original character, and to revel in that belief without the slightest misgiving.
Many of our young women have thought fit to cut their hair short, put on blue spectacles, and call themselves Nihilists. By doing this they have been able to persuade themselves, without further trouble, that they have acquired new convictions of their own. Some men have but felt some little qualm of kindness towards their fellow-men, and the fact has been quite enough to persuade them that they stand alone in the van of enlightenment and that no one has such humanitarian feelings as they. Others have but to read an idea of somebody else’s, and they can immediately assimilate it and believe that it was a child of their own brain. The “impudence of ignorance,” if I may use the expression, is developed to a wonderful extent in such cases;—unlikely as it appears, it is met with at every turn."
-Dostoevsky, 'The Idiot'
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2638/2638-h/2638-h...
You can tell stupid people because they see everything through a political lens to decide the world for them, they think they are across the latest events, but they are just ducklings that imprint on a cat at hatching and now think they are one. Not one original thought in their heads, unknowingly hostage to bad actors and abstractions, and with the front of concern but the fervour of certainty that simply propels more conflicts.
In his book 'The End of History', Fukuyama described the peace-ification of the planet once everyone was in a liberal, democratic, egalitarian society, but right at the end he notes that when all is peaceful and calm, the eponymous 'end of history', people will still rebel against the system to rip it up and reinvent it simply out of boredom and the evaporation of natural purpose. We live at the apex of humanity in the EU and US, we have no mass graves or gulags, no starvation or torture squads, we even have socially constructed 'rights', it is a land of opportunity and safety nets, a system that perseveres despite the dubious competences of low grade politicians, but some ingrates constantly regurgitate it, spew it back as if they have a better idea or system - one they read in a book from 1867 or had a dream about when tripping, or, more perniciously, something dripped in their ear that they believed because everyone else in the class did.
The monster hunters though inevitably become the monsters they fight; 'I hate you for your hate speech, I'll battle you for peace, you will NOT be authoritarian'. If it walks like a cat and looks like a duck, it's a fervent political hostage, a human photocopier.
Nothing to see here kids except systemic brain damage.
As we are throwing quotations around, and I love a quotation, Jacob Bronowski suggested 'It is important that students bring a certain ragamuffin, barefoot irreverence to their studies; they are not here to worship what is known, but to question it.', and it's one I refer to on a daily basis. The biggest word in the world, perhaps the most significant, has three letters W H Y. Whilst I understand some see 'the youth' challenging establishment views and trying out 'different' looks, ideas, perspectives, as uncomfortable or pointless, I'd argue we should all do that rather than settle for a pair of old comfy slippers and a standard issue cardigan... And yes, I get some sound like Brando's Johnny in Laszlo Benedkt's 'The Wild One' who when asked by a querulous and somewhat awestruck acolyte 'What are you rebelling against' merely snarls 'Whaddya got?', a brilliant line that surely sums up the potion any thinker must take if they want to move forward? Many of our young women have thought fit to cut their hair short, put on blue spectacles, and call themselves Nihilists. By doing this they have been able to persuade themselves, without further trouble, that they have acquired new convictions of their own. Some men have but felt some little qualm of kindness towards their fellow-men, and the fact has been quite enough to persuade them that they stand alone in the van of enlightenment and that no one has such humanitarian feelings as they. Others have but to read an idea of somebody else’s, and they can immediately assimilate it and believe that it was a child of their own brain. The “impudence of ignorance,” if I may use the expression, is developed to a wonderful extent in such cases;—unlikely as it appears, it is met with at every turn."
-Dostoevsky, 'The Idiot'
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2638/2638-h/2638-h...
You can tell stupid people because they see everything through a political lens to decide the world for them, they think they are across the latest events, but they are just ducklings that imprint on a cat at hatching and now think they are one. Not one original thought in their heads, unknowingly hostage to bad actors and abstractions, and with the front of concern but the fervour of certainty that simply propels more conflicts.
In his book 'The End of History', Fukuyama described the peace-ification of the planet once everyone was in a liberal, democratic, egalitarian society, but right at the end he notes that when all is peaceful and calm, the eponymous 'end of history', people will still rebel against the system to rip it up and reinvent it simply out of boredom and the evaporation of natural purpose. We live at the apex of humanity in the EU and US, we have no mass graves or gulags, no starvation or torture squads, we even have socially constructed 'rights', it is a land of opportunity and safety nets, a system that perseveres despite the dubious competences of low grade politicians, but some ingrates constantly regurgitate it, spew it back as if they have a better idea or system - one they read in a book from 1867 or had a dream about when tripping, or, more perniciously, something dripped in their ear that they believed because everyone else in the class did.
The monster hunters though inevitably become the monsters they fight; 'I hate you for your hate speech, I'll battle you for peace, you will NOT be authoritarian'. If it walks like a cat and looks like a duck, it's a fervent political hostage, a human photocopier.
Nothing to see here kids except systemic brain damage.
Edited by andy_s on Friday 3rd May 16:25
I'd argue with Dostoevsky, and why not, none of our cultural icons should remain unchallenged. Everyone, regardless of their intellect should think of themselves as an original character. They may be manifesting their originality by following a crowd, whatever, but we are all original characters, and should feel it a duty to practice original and open minded thinking and analysis. Sadly, many prefer the regulation issue stereotype foisted up in them by society and gratefully relieved because of its comfort and familiarity. Religion may be the opium of the masses, but that comfort one has by allowing oneself to be massaged into the right shape to fit the hole others have prepared for you is also a heady opiate, and one that many are addicted to.
Edited by biggbn on Saturday 4th May 12:10
biggbn said:
As we are throwing quotations around, and I love a quotation, Jacob Bronowski suggested 'It is important that students bring a certain ragamuffin, barefoot irreverence to their studies; they are not here to worship what is known, but to question it.', and it's one I refer to on a daily basis. The biggest word in the world, perhaps the most significant, has three letters W H Y. Whilst I understand some see 'the youth' challenging establishment views and trying out 'different' looks, ideas, perspectives, as uncomfortable or pointless, I'd argue we should all do that rather than settle for a pair of old comfy slippers and a standard issue cardigan... And yes, I get some sound like Brando's Johnny in Laszlo Benedkt's 'The Wild One' who when asked by a querulous and somewhat awestruck acolyte 'What are you rebelling against' merely snarls 'Whaddya got?', a brilliant line that surely sums up the potion any thinker must take if they want to move forward?
I'd argue with Dostoevsky, and why not, none of our cultural icons should remain unchallenged. Everyone, regardless of their intellect should think of themselves as an original character. They may be manifesting their originality by following a crowd, whatever, but we are all original characters, and should feel it a duty to practice original and open minded thinking and analysis. Sadly, many prefer the regulation issue stereotype foisted up in them by society and gratefully relieved because of its comfort and familiarity. Religion may be the opium of the masses, but that comfort one has by allowing oneself to be massaged into the right shape to fit the hole others have prepared for you is also a heady opiate, and one that many are addicted to.
I think there's a few things here perhaps - first of all I agree, it's natural and beneficial to question the status quo, everyone should have a bit of Brando in them - I've largely built my career around doing exactly that, but now ask yourself, how many in the radical/activist domain question their status quo? Doesn't seem too Brando to me, looks like they are as conformist [intra-group] as the frat boy next door! ['All punks look the same']I'd argue with Dostoevsky, and why not, none of our cultural icons should remain unchallenged. Everyone, regardless of their intellect should think of themselves as an original character. They may be manifesting their originality by following a crowd, whatever, but we are all original characters, and should feel it a duty to practice original and open minded thinking and analysis. Sadly, many prefer the regulation issue stereotype foisted up in them by society and gratefully relieved because of its comfort and familiarity. Religion may be the opium of the masses, but that comfort one has by allowing oneself to be massaged into the right shape to fit the hole others have prepared for you is also a heady opiate, and one that many are addicted to.
Edited by biggbn on Saturday 4th May 12:10
Secondly - and this extends philosophically too far perhaps - but it's like postmodern critique in general, it is a critique, it isn't a 'new way' nor does it stand alone without reference to the modern or the pre-modern. It's useful only to improve when you have a grasp of the underpinnings and why and how they operate - Chesterton's fence if you will. It's deconstructive by definition. Applied here it is easy to be channeled into thinking the west is a terrible place/thing etc, without having that broader perspective. There are a lot of things that are f
ked up, to put it technically, but unfking them may mean you fk up even worse than before with something else. This I think takes consideration, something that is not at all evident from these types. What is their solution? They don't have one, so WHY are adults listening to them...?On comfort I would say perhaps it's a question of how the individual fits into the collective, the collective can't operate without some rules and discipline, some conformity and purpose and a LOT of 'load bearing fictions'. That tie, WHY?! - it's scrap of cloth that sits around your neck serving no purpose you fool, but in the collective it's a signal that you're professional or attending a sober meeting or some other convention we have going on - this is just part of culture. Religion, as you bring it up, is similar [imo] in that it operates as a collective hallucination/'load bearing fiction' that keeps everyone from doing bad things, looking after your neighbour is good, not sleeping with them if you're married is better etc. etc.. They may be 'constructs', but there is purpose behind them. Eschew god when you understand why god is there and you can perhaps improve things and not be riddled with Catholic guilt or have an Islamic license for misogyny whilst maintaining those beneficial parts - I think this is the true direction/advantage of postmodernist thinking rather than the 'everything is fake so tear it down' one that it has sort of morphed into.
Map all of that onto this small issue here and you could see how promoting the rights of the Palestinians may be beneficial, to put some small brake on the whole bloody mess or to check the wilder excesses, but that's not what is going on, imo because the wider context, realities and theory of mind isn't there. It's as I've said above, much more to do with inculcation in a certain direction, a group think or memetic desire, so that the mere act of protest is an end in and of itself. This is Dostoevsky's point I think rather than that of a pro-conformist one - the values of the lady came from wearing the blue spectacles and calling themselves a Nihilist, and not that their values made them a Nihilist.
Edited by andy_s on Saturday 4th May 18:03
Gavin Mortimer argues why war in Gaza is not like Vietnam.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-the-war-in-...
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/no-the-war-in-...
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Sorry we've got people on here pushing the usual conspiracy filth about Soros?
Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
People like Politico you mean? Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-pales...
bodhi said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Sorry we've got people on here pushing the usual conspiracy filth about Soros?
Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
People like Politico you mean? Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-pales...
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/may/02/fac...
otolith said:
bodhi said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Sorry we've got people on here pushing the usual conspiracy filth about Soros?
Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
People like Politico you mean? Really?
And they call other people "useful idiots".
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-pales...
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/may/02/fac...
your link said:
Soros' Open Society Foundations previously donated to the Poynter Institute-owned International Fact-Checking Network. PolitiFact is a Poynter subsidiary.
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