Flash and bang turning granny charger off

Flash and bang turning granny charger off

Author
Discussion

Anastie

Original Poster:

155 posts

159 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Hi PH'rs

I've owned my Rav4 PHEV for a week and until Octopus give me a charge point installation date I'm using the Toyota supplied granny charger. Priot to picking which socket I used I plugged in my socket tester and also checked the plug and socket for increased heat during its use. Nothing flagged....

Until today!

My car was charging using the granny charger and not on an extension for an hour. I went to check for any heat on the plug and there was none of concern. As I needed to go out I went to turn the switch off at the granny charger and there was an almighty flash from the switch and a bang. Fortunately it tripped the RCD so I didn't get a shock.

My house has reasonably modern wiring, a new consumer unit and Solar plus battery (Not that I expect the solar contributed to this).

I have no idea what caused the flash, bang and tripping of the RCD. Its not as if I unplugged the charger from the socket without turning the socket off first.

Im trying to avoid this happening again so I would like to hear any suggestions as to what may have happened?

Vsix and Vtec

658 posts

19 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
I'd be checking the wiring isn't loose inside the plug or the feeds to the back of the socket.

Pica-Pica

13,883 posts

85 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Is the socket double pole? Is it a waterproof type?
It would be best with an RCD plug on (or in line to) the charger.

Anastie

Original Poster:

155 posts

159 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Ive checked the socket and no loose wires or charring.

The socket is an internal double socket as I had passed the granny charger through the window.

OutInTheShed

7,824 posts

27 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
If the flash was from the socket switch, you need a new socket.

If the flash was from some part of the granny charger, it's faulty.

Does the manual suggest stopping the charger with a button or something before switching off at the mains?

Anastie

Original Poster:

155 posts

159 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
If the flash was from the socket switch, you need a new socket.

If the flash was from some part of the granny charger, it's faulty.

Does the manual suggest stopping the charger with a button or something before switching off at the mains?
Thanks for the suggestion. The manual states nothing about stopping the charge and there is no button etc to do so.
The flash was definitely from the switch on the socket

OutInTheShed

7,824 posts

27 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Once a switch has performed a decent flash, there is often metal sprayed around the works, the contacts will be pitted, it will never be the same again and may have leakage due to the metal and compounds coating the internals.

Switching off a large current can put a lot of stress on a switch. But it should cope. I'd try fitting a new one, double pole and preferably a premium brand unless there are decor matching issues....

Anastie

Original Poster:

155 posts

159 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
Once a switch has performed a decent flash, there is often metal sprayed around the works, the contacts will be pitted, it will never be the same again and may have leakage due to the metal and compounds coating the internals.

Switching off a large current can put a lot of stress on a switch. But it should cope. I'd try fitting a new one, double pole and preferably a premium brand unless there are decor matching issues....
Thanks. Any brand suggestions?

Pica-Pica

13,883 posts

85 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Anastie said:
OutInTheShed said:
Once a switch has performed a decent flash, there is often metal sprayed around the works, the contacts will be pitted, it will never be the same again and may have leakage due to the metal and compounds coating the internals.

Switching off a large current can put a lot of stress on a switch. But it should cope. I'd try fitting a new one, double pole and preferably a premium brand unless there are decor matching issues....
Thanks. Any brand suggestions?
A Crabtree double-pole switched socket. (Crabtree are easier to wire than MK, despite MK’s claim about their push fit connectors). I would invest in a RCD adaptor for the charger as well.

ATG

20,684 posts

273 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Good advice above.

The switch will have been braking a 10A current, which is quite a bit, but not massive

Anastie

Original Poster:

155 posts

159 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Thanks all. Appreciate the help and Im thankful the RCB kicked in too!

Pica-Pica

13,883 posts

85 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Anastie said:
Thanks all. Appreciate the help and Im thankful the RCB kicked in too!
Ha! I was hacking into cement render in preparation for adding lime plaster, when flash! I thought my chisel had struck flint, but it was a cable, and the RCD (Residual Current Device) tripped. I managed to turn the disaster into opportunity and put some more sockets into the circuit at that point!

quinny100

930 posts

187 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Pica-Pica said:
I would invest in a RCD adaptor for the charger as well.
Why would you do that?

agent006

12,043 posts

265 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
quinny100 said:
Pica-Pica said:
I would invest in a RCD adaptor for the charger as well.
Why would you do that?
Maybe you could explain why it's not necessary, because that's clearly what you mean.

quinny100

930 posts

187 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
The OP said the circuit in question is RCD protected.

Adding a second RCD is pointless because you have no control of which of the two RCD's will trip. It's not a case of the RCD nearest the load will trip, it's whichever reacts fastest. It adds no additional protection.

In this case where a relatively high current device is being connected to a socket you want to minimise the number of connections in the circuit. Suggesting a plug in RCD is just adding two more connections, two more opportunities for a high resistance connection which will generate heat and melt something.

The safest way to use a granny charger is to plug it directly in to a decent quality socket. Stopping the charge on the car is a good idea as it will remove the load on the socket switch when you turn it off.

blank

3,465 posts

189 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Unlock the car and unplug the cable first.

Then when you switch it off it's not under load.

OutInTheShed

7,824 posts

27 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
quinny100 said:
The OP said the circuit in question is RCD protected.

Adding a second RCD is pointless because you have no control of which of the two RCD's will trip. It's not a case of the RCD nearest the load will trip, it's whichever reacts fastest. It adds no additional protection.

In this case where a relatively high current device is being connected to a socket you want to minimise the number of connections in the circuit. Suggesting a plug in RCD is just adding two more connections, two more opportunities for a high resistance connection which will generate heat and melt something.

The safest way to use a granny charger is to plug it directly in to a decent quality socket. Stopping the charge on the car is a good idea as it will remove the load on the socket switch when you turn it off.
I don't disagree, but the flip side is, break the circuit with a £15 plug in RCD, worst case, you lose £15 instead of calling out a sparky to change your socket.

This is a problem that should not happen, but I'm not knocked over by the surprise of it.

Pica-Pica

13,883 posts

85 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
quinny100 said:
The OP said the circuit in question is RCD protected.

Adding a second RCD is pointless because you have no control of which of the two RCD's will trip. It's not a case of the RCD nearest the load will trip, it's whichever reacts fastest. It adds no additional protection.

In this case where a relatively high current device is being connected to a socket you want to minimise the number of connections in the circuit. Suggesting a plug in RCD is just adding two more connections, two more opportunities for a high resistance connection which will generate heat and melt something.

The safest way to use a granny charger is to plug it directly in to a decent quality socket. Stopping the charge on the car is a good idea as it will remove the load on the socket switch when you turn it off.
I suspect OP meant the whole INSTALLATION (that is house) was RCD protected. Fine for individual’s protection, but circuits that need to be separately connected (e.g. lighting and power) should remain energised in the event of failure of any other circuit of the installation.

TheDeuce

21,935 posts

67 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
When you flipped the switch off, the contacts arced as the circuit was broken. The same could happen if you plugged a kettle in and flipped the switch mid boil, although less likely as it's a shorter duration of current flow so the contact would be cooler and less pliable.

Probably best to just replace the socket set with a new one for a tenner, after such a large arc crossing the switch contacts, they'll likely be degraded now.

If you unlock the car and remove the car plug ahead of breaking the circuit at the socket in future, that will avoid the same thing happening again.

quinny100

930 posts

187 months

Thursday 2nd May
quotequote all
Pica-Pica said:
I suspect OP meant the whole INSTALLATION (that is house) was RCD protected. Fine for individual’s protection, but circuits that need to be separately connected (e.g. lighting and power) should remain energised in the event of failure of any other circuit of the installation.
Sure, we’d all be better off replacing our single or dual RCD consumer units with one using RCBO’s providing RCD protection to the individual circuits.

But the recommendation was to install a plug in RCD downstream of another RCD protecting the circuit, and multiple RCD’s is pointless. An RCBO board has multiple RCD’s, but only one protects each circuit.