EVs... no one wants them!

EVs... no one wants them!

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Discussion

LivLL

10,902 posts

198 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
CivicDuties said:
LivLL said:
CivicDuties said:
Yes, but more slowly, giving us more time to work out the final answers to stopping it happening.
Am I hearing this right, the planet will still warm but more slowly?
Yes, now try understanding the other part of my sentence and why it's important.

Just because we haven't got one single answer to climate change, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the things we can do. It's not that hard a concept.
I understand what you've written perfectly. Just don't agree.

CivicDuties

4,829 posts

31 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
LivLL said:
CivicDuties said:
LivLL said:
CivicDuties said:
Yes, but more slowly, giving us more time to work out the final answers to stopping it happening.
Am I hearing this right, the planet will still warm but more slowly?
Yes, now try understanding the other part of my sentence and why it's important.

Just because we haven't got one single answer to climate change, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the things we can do. It's not that hard a concept.
I understand what you've written perfectly. Just don't agree.
Interesting. I can either conclude that you mean:

1 - There's no point doing anything regarding climate change.
2 - Climate change has no man-made element involving CO2 emissions.
3 - You don't care.
4 - You don't think slowing down climate change will give us more time to develop the total solution.
5 - EVs do nothing to help mitigate climate change.

Or something else?

LivLL

10,902 posts

198 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
Just don't believe buying an EV will cause a measurable reduction in the planets warming. You do, that's fine. Maybe I've missed the research that shows the effect several million EV's on the road have had on the CO2 levels.

Sure, if it makes you feel better you could use it as a benefit to sell EV adoption to people.

Personally I see the main environmental benefit being reduction in local pollution.

GT9

6,798 posts

173 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
LivLL said:
the General?

Anyway, if you're doing what I think you are it's against forum rules. If not, apologies.
GeneralBanter is a new username on this thread, posting like a previously banned account.
If you meant amateur sleuthing, I wasn't after their actual identity...

LowTread

4,372 posts

225 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
Climate change and CO2 was about 10th or 11th on the list of reasons why i went for a Model 3.

LivLL

10,902 posts

198 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter is a new username on this thread, posting like a previously banned account.
If you meant amateur sleuthing, I wasn't after their actual identity...
beer

otolith

56,351 posts

205 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
LivLL said:
Maybe I've missed the research that shows the effect several million EV's on the road have had on the CO2 levels.
A drop in the ocean compared to the number of ICE cars, though, it will take time for those cars to drop out of use. This is about 4 years into a 30 year programme of emissions reduction, and cars are one of the easier things to deal with.

CivicDuties

4,829 posts

31 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
LivLL said:
Just don't believe buying an EV will cause a measurable reduction in the planets warming. You do, that's fine. Maybe I've missed the research that shows the effect several million EV's on the road have had on the CO2 levels.

Sure, if it makes you feel better you could use it as a benefit to sell EV adoption to people.

Personally I see the main environmental benefit being reduction in local pollution.
But you didn't ask that, you asked "If we removed all cars would it stop climate change", to which the answers I gave is correct, i.e. "No, but it would slow it down, which will help". So removing the emissions of *some* will help too, so it's worth doing.

Even if the CO2 effect is negligible *today*, that's not the point either. The point is to continue the roll out of ZEVs in order to accelerate that effect, which means we have to pass through the point we're at today (negligible effect) in order to make things better.

I see the main benefit as a reduction in local pollution also, which is one of the reasons I drive an EV as my daily, and have done for 7 years.

LivLL

10,902 posts

198 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
Again, that's a fine and noble belief to hold. No problem with someone having a different opinion.

Pulse00

517 posts

100 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
Thinking about buying a Model S P100d for around £40k. Can someone please talk me out of it

BricktopST205

1,049 posts

135 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
LivLL said:
Anyone who thinks EV's address climate change is clinically insane. rofl

Local pollution, I'm right there with you - stopping the planet warming - nope.
EV's are a drop in the ocean compared to population control.

Unless you address that element going EV is a waste of time.

Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 1st May 14:43

GT9

6,798 posts

173 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
GeneralBanter said:
We need to stop wasted or pointless car and plane journeys and get right back to being able to stand on our own. THEN maybe a proper discussion about the real benefits of EV’s including their life cycle costs and the ethical and emissions aspects of lithium production.
I could point out that an EV's carbon and AQ footprint has little bearing on how many times you drive it, how far you drive it or how fast you drive it.
Whatever relationships currently exist, they are decaying quite quickly with time, save for tyre particles.
I could also point out that an EV produced from in-country recycled battery minerals and powered by an offshore wind turbine in UK waters is about as close as we will ever get to 'standing on our own'.
You seem to want this, but don't want the pain of getting there.
What are you thinking, an overnight switch when we've stock-piled 30 million home-produced cars?
Caterham, TVR and AC have been working on EVs, so I suppose anything is possible.
Whatever you think of the value of a newly-manufactured EV's lifetime carbon footprint, what you will definitely find is that saying it's worse than a newly-manufactured ICE is demonstrably bks.
In that sense, legislation to curb and eventually eliminating production of any more ICEs makes perfect sense.
There are 1.5 billion ICE cars on the planet already, I really don't think anyone is going to go without anytime soon.
Hydrogen is the deadest duck going and mainstream e-fuel is half a century away, assuming you can find the trillion or so to pay for it.
So that just leaves EV as the last man standing.
Basically, the only reason you've got for do nothing is LiThiUm, despite the fact that we are not endlessly extracting and burning it.

raspy

1,538 posts

95 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
BricktopST205 said:
EV's are a drop in the ocean compared to population control.

Unless you address that element going EV is a waste of time.

Edited by BricktopST205 on Wednesday 1st May 14:43
I agree. In fact, I'm going to see if we can get enough signatures to get our government to ban people from having kids.

cj2013

1,409 posts

127 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
ACCYSTAN said:
If they had a range of 500 miles + the same as the petrol or diesel Berlingo, I would buy one today
But does a person really need to travel that far without a break? If it were the US, someone could make the argument for long distances without chargers or something (in the appalachia type areas), but the UK isn't a particularly big island.

LivLL

10,902 posts

198 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
raspy said:
I agree. In fact, I'm going to see if we can get enough signatures to get our government to ban people from having kids.
Step away from the red book Comrade

Muzzer79

10,127 posts

188 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
cj2013 said:
ACCYSTAN said:
If they had a range of 500 miles + the same as the petrol or diesel Berlingo, I would buy one today
But does a person really need to travel that far without a break? If it were the US, someone could make the argument for long distances without chargers or something (in the appalachia type areas), but the UK isn't a particularly big island.
Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.

cj2013

1,409 posts

127 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
raspy said:
I agree. In fact, I'm going to see if we can get enough signatures to get our government to ban people from having kids.
TBF, even though you're clearly joking, the concept of population growth is indeed a past issue, not a present one.

Take 2022 for example: https://www.statista.com/statistics/270370/age-dis...

17.47% of the population was 14 or under
63.36% was 15 to 64
19.17% was 65 or older

So in the simplest form, we're looking at a 1.63% population decrease due to having less 'new' people born than 'old' people on their way into the twilight.

So, ironically, air quality in BUAs (e.g. reducing infant mortality from air pollution etc) is weirdly contributing towards the perception of population growth (by improving health), but is actually intrinsically help to improve population decline.

Oilchange

8,493 posts

261 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
CO2 isn't a problem, it’s just an easily measured metric by which governments can tax us.
Never in the history of the world has CO2 caused the planet to warm, it’s always been the other way round.

GT9

6,798 posts

173 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
BricktopST205 said:
EV's are a drop in the ocean compared to population control.
That's what hydrogen is for.
I've even seen secret plans to put it in people's homes and cars, but tell no-one I said that.
The intended carnage is indescribable.

raspy

1,538 posts

95 months

Wednesday 1st May
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.
My chauffeur the other day told me he's from Romania and he drives back home from London every few months and prefers to drive than fly.

Anyway, he told me he drives there non stop (apart from fuel breaks for diesel) and says it takes him about 24 hrs of driving to get home. He told me EVs were useless for him.