New Vanq 3 on the way
Discussion
atrossity said:
My main worry for both the new Vanquish and the 12Cilindri is regulation. And not just the particulate filtration and dB edicts ruining the sound. There is talk of forced speed regulation (not just over-speed-limit beep warnings). That kind of thing would kill the market for these otherwise awesome machines.
I'm sure a screwdriver applied with the right amount of force in the right place, or a thingy with wires from eBay, would nobble it. Allegedly, officer.Simpo Two said:
atrossity said:
My main worry for both the new Vanquish and the 12Cilindri is regulation. And not just the particulate filtration and dB edicts ruining the sound. There is talk of forced speed regulation (not just over-speed-limit beep warnings). That kind of thing would kill the market for these otherwise awesome machines.
I'm sure a screwdriver applied with the right amount of force in the right place, or a thingy with wires from eBay, would nobble it. Allegedly, officer.This horsepower race is ridiculous. Where can you apply more than 500hp without going directly to jail and having your car confiscated as a result. The 8 cylinder AMG engine or the flat 6 from Porsche is all you ever need and then development money should go on chassis tune and drivability. These are dinosaurs in the making and for Aston‘s sake it is taking a 200 miles an hour approach to hitting the wall.
hornbaek said:
This horsepower race is ridiculous. Where can you apply more than 500hp without going directly to jail and having your car confiscated as a result. The 8 cylinder AMG engine or the flat 6 from Porsche is all you ever need and then development money should go on chassis tune and drivability. These are dinosaurs in the making and for Aston‘s sake it is taking a 200 miles an hour approach to hitting the wall.
Not sure of your line of work, but the chap who ran Citibank (into a wall) said that if the music keeps playing then you keep dancing.The 5.2 V12 was developed under the old regime of Andy Palmer and is now pretty much hand-built.
Stroll will keep dancing...
Someone else will pick up the pieces later...
And it will begin again...
Calinours said:
This seems more realistic, a 20-25% hike then. I think the DBSS at launch in 2018 was about £230k base, but optioned up like anything at that sort of price point there would have been few if any less than 250k. I don’t know about it being a shame that it’s only a big front engined sporting GT - this is what AM are best known for. I wonder what they will declare it to be? If DB12 is already a super tourer… Whatever it looks like they are aiming more squarely at the 812 and it’s replacement this time.
I’d expect numbers close to and perhaps over £400k when decently optioned though, they are really leaning even more into that strategy.
If £400k is going to be the cost of a well optioned new continuation V12 flagship Vanq/DBS with 1000Nm, it does make the 900Nm (with so much torque, horsepower starts to become irrelevant) DBSS look a much more tantalising prospect at todays values. I for one could absolutely live with its interior and Merc sat nav at 1/3 the price of the new car…
I think it’s hard enough deploying all the power in my DBSS let alone the new Vanquish, so I think you won’t be able to really tell much of a difference on real roads. Of course you can now also fit CarPlay into the DBSS to - I’m told it will be £400k for a reasonable spec so doesn’t really make sense if you already have a DBSS which you’d need another £250k to get an extra 100Nm. You can have it tuned to 800bhp anyway if you want! I think they know this so hence the ‘limited numbers’ element to set expectations.I’d expect numbers close to and perhaps over £400k when decently optioned though, they are really leaning even more into that strategy.
If £400k is going to be the cost of a well optioned new continuation V12 flagship Vanq/DBS with 1000Nm, it does make the 900Nm (with so much torque, horsepower starts to become irrelevant) DBSS look a much more tantalising prospect at todays values. I for one could absolutely live with its interior and Merc sat nav at 1/3 the price of the new car…
SJH_Vs said:
I think it’s hard enough deploying all the power in my DBSS let alone the new Vanquish, so I think you won’t be able to really tell much of a difference on real roads. Of course you can now also fit CarPlay into the DBSS to - I’m told it will be £400k for a reasonable spec so doesn’t really make sense if you already have a DBSS which you’d need another £250k to get an extra 100Nm. You can have it tuned to 800bhp anyway if you want! I think they know this so hence the ‘limited numbers’ element to set expectations.
I take the point up to certain point, the thing is that Astons are GT cars, DBSS included, they're not really capable getting turbo charged power down through the rear wheels. I can't see the Vanq3 being anything revolutionary so I can't imagine will be able to get the power down either. If moving to super car territory that's another story, a Ferrari, Lambo or McLaren manage it. Just such a shame AML didn't go ahead with the mid engine Vanq we all wanted. I guess the thing is that to change the software on an existing engine is far more cost effective than designing a new car. Shame!
The best thing to do is ignore all the excessive marketing/advertising nonsense and think of the ‘new’ car for as what it really is, just a thorough update of the previous car, the DBSS, just as the ‘new’ DB12 and Vantage are thorough updates of DB11 and previous Vantage.
What’s not to love? It’s going to be the beautiful DBSS and it’s barnstorming engine with a whole bunch of focus on its perceived weak points, ie traction and interior. So fundamentally sharpened chassis, tweaked styling (I hope they don’t go too mad, there wasn’t anything at all wrong with the way the DBSS looked) and of course that new interior with even more ‘ultra luxury’. Fantastic.
As for it being ‘too powerful’ folk have always grumbled that cars and later supercars have become too much for normal roads. It started at the very beginning with the requirement for a man with a flag.
Thankfully such extreme power can be made safe for mere mortals with the super advanced nanny systems. 800 odd hp isn’t even that much anymore, from a power to weight and acceleration perspective pretty much any Mclaren will still absolutely boss the updated DBSS, the original Veyron is getting on for 20yrs old and even the new electric hyper-stuff are delivering peak powers in four figures.
Clearly it’s all approaching a regulatory, environmentally and speed/safety driven zenith as Clarkson once famously if prematurely predicted while driving the original V12 Vantage. I’d hazard that in 25yrs most journeys will be made in self driving electric pods and few young folk will even learn to drive.
So let’s all enjoy stuff like this fantastic updated 5.2 twin turbo V12 DBS (oops sorry Lawrence, this all new Vanquish with an all new engine) as such mechanical marvels surely now aren’t long for this world.
Hats off to those very successful folk who can afford to buy one, and the rest of us will continue to dream that depreciation may one day bring one within our reach.
What’s not to love? It’s going to be the beautiful DBSS and it’s barnstorming engine with a whole bunch of focus on its perceived weak points, ie traction and interior. So fundamentally sharpened chassis, tweaked styling (I hope they don’t go too mad, there wasn’t anything at all wrong with the way the DBSS looked) and of course that new interior with even more ‘ultra luxury’. Fantastic.
As for it being ‘too powerful’ folk have always grumbled that cars and later supercars have become too much for normal roads. It started at the very beginning with the requirement for a man with a flag.
Thankfully such extreme power can be made safe for mere mortals with the super advanced nanny systems. 800 odd hp isn’t even that much anymore, from a power to weight and acceleration perspective pretty much any Mclaren will still absolutely boss the updated DBSS, the original Veyron is getting on for 20yrs old and even the new electric hyper-stuff are delivering peak powers in four figures.
Clearly it’s all approaching a regulatory, environmentally and speed/safety driven zenith as Clarkson once famously if prematurely predicted while driving the original V12 Vantage. I’d hazard that in 25yrs most journeys will be made in self driving electric pods and few young folk will even learn to drive.
So let’s all enjoy stuff like this fantastic updated 5.2 twin turbo V12 DBS (oops sorry Lawrence, this all new Vanquish with an all new engine) as such mechanical marvels surely now aren’t long for this world.
Hats off to those very successful folk who can afford to buy one, and the rest of us will continue to dream that depreciation may one day bring one within our reach.
hornbaek said:
This horsepower race is ridiculous. Where can you apply more than 500hp without going directly to jail and having your car confiscated as a result. The 8 cylinder AMG engine or the flat 6 from Porsche is all you ever need and then development money should go on chassis tune and drivability. These are dinosaurs in the making and for Aston‘s sake it is taking a 200 miles an hour approach to hitting the wall.
Frustrates the hell out of me on a regular basis.My XJR with 550bhp was actually boring it was so fast. All it was going to achieve was getting me a driving ban eventually. It made the rest of the world seem so slow.
It's definitely a problem in that people seem to buy based on playing Top Trumps rather than how the car makes you feel.
What options do I have if I just want 400bhp in a premium package? The Emira was supposed to be that and I really didn't like it.
Or maybe I just need to drive something like a Ferrari 296 GTB to see what all the fuss is about, maybe I'm missing a thrill that I didn't know I wanted.
I put my money where my mouth is and bought an Alpine A110 and Vantage S. But I would love to see something like the Toyota GR86 with premium styling and interior.
Agent57 said:
Just bought an MX5 RF 2.0. Loads of fun and plenty of nippy power that can be enjoyed.
Was wondering if they did a car that was 10% bigger and had a 3.0 six cylinder engine then that wold be a real goldilocks car.
I think you're looking at the standard Boxster/Cayman:Was wondering if they did a car that was 10% bigger and had a 3.0 six cylinder engine then that wold be a real goldilocks car.
Manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404309...
PDK:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404068...
Agent57 said:
Just bought an MX5 RF 2.0. Loads of fun and plenty of nippy power that can be enjoyed.
Was wondering if they did a car that was 10% bigger and had a 3.0 six cylinder engine then that wold be a real goldilocks car.
Was wondering if they did a car that was 10% bigger and had a 3.0 six cylinder engine then that wold be a real goldilocks car.
Here is one.
10% bigger, 335 or 496bhp, although it appears to be twice the price of an MX5.
Expect the MX5 will last longer.
quench said:
Out of curiosity, why is that? Did you try the V6, I4 or both?
I drove the V6 manual and I really struggled to connect with it, it lacked feel and was boring to drive. This guy on Instagram worded it perfectly to sum up the car and I felt exactly the same about it:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6b3A2oiGtm/?img_index...
I also love the look of it, but I wouldn't buy it because the looks don't suit me. Which is a strange thing to say but for me I felt like I was in a car pretending to be something it wasn't. If you're going to go supercar looks it has to be supercar thrills, otherwise it's just a Toyota MR2.
To the contrary, I have a V8 Vantage S, and the difference in thrills is night and day. You're sat on the motorway listening to your favourite podcast then see clear run in the right hand lane, pause the podcast, drop down a gear or two, the car rev matches perfectly and suddenly the cabin gets noisier, you pull out and put your foot down while checking your mirrors on those long stalks that are needed to see over the hips of the car, everything always feels a little risky as the dash and door windows come up quite high and there's still a lot of dash and bonnet in-front of you, which isn't good practical design but makes you feel like a jet pilot. You put your foot down to find so much more torque and the engine fills the cabin with V8 noise, the ridiculously hard suspension of the S gets a bit bouncy but you tune in to it and prepare to lift and time the upshift of the flawed robotised manual gearbox. It's all so flawed yet evokes so much emotion.
This was all lacking in the Emira. In the Harry Metcalfe video he explains that people criticised the seats because you sit too high in the car, but in fact it is by good design as the door windows come down a lot lower towards the front of the car and the dash is lower so you can position the car perfectly on the road. But day to day it made the car feel like I was driving a hot hatch. The engine noise was not nice at all, not helped by a GPF on the exhaust.
I like my cars to have character, I have a Fiat Panda 100hp as the daily because I can drive like I'm on a race track when going to get milk, V8V S, Alpine A110 because it feels like a nippy little go-kart, a Caterham for the track etc because it makes me feel like Ayrton Senna and a Range Rover L322 because it makes me feel like the queen.
The Emira made me feel nothing.
I haven't driven the i4 and I really hope it's better, I think more torque would add to the character of the car.
Edited by AlexNJ89 on Tuesday 7th May 08:49
AlexNJ89 said:
I drove the V6 manual and I really struggled to connect with it, it lacked feel and was boring to drive.
Yours is not the first negative review I've heard of the Emira. This is very interesting, because the car is really just a lightly modified/updated Evora, and it is hard to believe the models can be so different, but apparently they are!I have an Evora GT, which is a North America only model that is very similar to the run out GT410 Sport which was sold in the UK; it has a few features of the GT430 but lacks the full aero, amongst other details, due to certification/legislation issues. It is overall the best driving car I have ever owned, although it is not as exciting/emotive as my V12VS, and lacks the purity of my previous Exige S240 (although I doubt anything would ever match that car for rawness nowadays). It certainly has its flaws (seating position too high for my frame, and too much travel on initial application of the brake pedal), but that Camry V6 is astoundingly good in this state of tune (and without particulate filters!), and the steering and ride/handling balance are sublime.
Haven't tried an Emira, because I have no desire to get rid of the Evora. Did you ever drive an Evora, and if so did it bore you like the Emira?
quench said:
Did you ever drive an Evora, and if so did it bore you like the Emira?
I did. I wanted an auto at the time because of my commute, so I drove a Sport Racer S and an Evora 400, both IPS.I loved the Sport Racer S, I was so impressed with the IPS box, especially as the press slated it, it was snappy and had such a lovely rev match on the down shift. The seats were very comfortable. But I found the sill quite big and difficult to get in and out of for what would've been a regularly used car. I also had to take my shoes off to drive it as I kept pressing the brake and the throttle at the same time.
I preferred the looks of the 400, but I just couldn't get on with the seats, they made my back hurt and I felt I was sitting so high. I felt the 400 needed to be pushed hard for it to have feel, but I did overall prefer the experience to the Emira.
AlexNJ89 said:
Frustrates the hell out of me on a regular basis.
My XJR with 550bhp was actually boring it was so fast. All it was going to achieve was getting me a driving ban eventually. It made the rest of the world seem so slow.
It's definitely a problem in that people seem to buy based on playing Top Trumps rather than how the car makes you feel.
What options do I have if I just want 400bhp in a premium package? The Emira was supposed to be that and I really didn't like it.
Or maybe I just need to drive something like a Ferrari 296 GTB to see what all the fuss is about, maybe I'm missing a thrill that I didn't know I wanted.
I put my money where my mouth is and bought an Alpine A110 and Vantage S. But I would love to see something like the Toyota GR86 with premium styling and interior.
I guess it all depends where you live, your age and how many limbs you have. if you're 90+ missing a leg and live in central London I can see how a (relatively speaking) slow car like an XKR would be boring. There's still plenty of (safe) fun to be had in the UK even with our over electronically policed system now. My XJR with 550bhp was actually boring it was so fast. All it was going to achieve was getting me a driving ban eventually. It made the rest of the world seem so slow.
It's definitely a problem in that people seem to buy based on playing Top Trumps rather than how the car makes you feel.
What options do I have if I just want 400bhp in a premium package? The Emira was supposed to be that and I really didn't like it.
Or maybe I just need to drive something like a Ferrari 296 GTB to see what all the fuss is about, maybe I'm missing a thrill that I didn't know I wanted.
I put my money where my mouth is and bought an Alpine A110 and Vantage S. But I would love to see something like the Toyota GR86 with premium styling and interior.
I'm also not really sure people buy Astons for top trumps, because, as much as we all love them the reality is the same money (or even less!) in many different different brands will beat an Aston in any other "top Trump" measure. We buy Astons because we love the brand, the theatre and pleasure it brings, also maybe some patriotism. I think anyone who bought a Vanq3 because it had 835 BHP and that's the only reason, will be very disappointed because it will be out performed by many other cars, a good example being your Alpine in all likelihood!
Even a relatively slow PS electric car will get people in trouble quicker than many Astons now. Personally I think BHP in an Aston is irrelevant and I really can't see an 835BHP being quicker than an awful lot of other brands with much less BHP.
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