Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[Wombat3]

CivicDuties said:

blueg33 said:

We had beneficial terms that were thrown away with Brexit, we wouldn't get those if we rejoin.

Rejoining in any form would be a net benefit.

But it'll be a negotiation when it inevitably happens, based on whatever global circumstances exist at that point in the future. What we had before is irrelevant, and shouldn't be used as a benchmark.

Based on their MO with negotiations in numerous spheres, one does not negotiate with the EU, one gives them what they want or it never happens.

They are numpties at that stuff, they do not seem to understand the concept of a "Win-Win" deal & that its the only one that really works in the long term. We saw plenty of evidence of that with our own dealings with them

[Mortarboard]

And yet the uk managed to get a tarrif-free deal.

Phunny dat.

M.

[Mortarboard]

Uk misses out. New Intel plant headed to Ireland, by the looks of it.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/intel-nears-...

M.

[CivicDuties]

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

blueg33 said:

We had beneficial terms that were thrown away with Brexit, we wouldn't get those if we rejoin.

Rejoining in any form would be a net benefit.

But it'll be a negotiation when it inevitably happens, based on whatever global circumstances exist at that point in the future. What we had before is irrelevant, and shouldn't be used as a benchmark.

Based on their MO with negotiations in numerous spheres, one does not negotiate with the EU, one gives them what they want or it never happens.

They are numpties at that stuff, they do not seem to understand the concept of a "Win-Win" deal & that its the only one that really works in the long term. We saw plenty of evidence of that with our own dealings with them

We saw the diametric opposite of that in our own dealings with the EU, hence our "special status" and all the opt-outs we had before we threw our membership away without thinking it through.

[CraigyMc]

Mortarboard said:

Uk misses out. New Intel plant headed to Ireland, by the looks of it.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/intel-nears-...

M.

Intel ireland is their biggest manufacturing base outside of the USA, has been for years.
Pretty slim chance of that heading to the UK either way, they'd already put $30bn into Leixlip where they already have 3 major fabs.

[Mortarboard]

I would have thought the uk would have put some effort into it, post brexit.
Otherwise "free of the shackles of the EU" isn't going to do much.....

M.

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

Uk misses out. New Intel plant headed to Ireland, by the looks of it.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/intel-nears-...

M.

Missed out, the decision was made in 2022 this is just about who is building the facility. Did you not actually read the story you posted?

[Wombat3]

CivicDuties said:

Wombat3 said:

CivicDuties said:

blueg33 said:

We had beneficial terms that were thrown away with Brexit, we wouldn't get those if we rejoin.

Rejoining in any form would be a net benefit.

But it'll be a negotiation when it inevitably happens, based on whatever global circumstances exist at that point in the future. What we had before is irrelevant, and shouldn't be used as a benchmark.

Based on their MO with negotiations in numerous spheres, one does not negotiate with the EU, one gives them what they want or it never happens.

They are numpties at that stuff, they do not seem to understand the concept of a "Win-Win" deal & that its the only one that really works in the long term. We saw plenty of evidence of that with our own dealings with them

We saw the diametric opposite of that in our own dealings with the EU, hence our "special status" and all the opt-outs we had before we threw our membership away without thinking it through.

As if we should be grateful for the fact that we avoided getting involved in irreversible fiscal & political integration by calling it an "opt out". It was more of a "no, fk off, that's a stupid idea" I think

I was more referencing the behaviour of the EU post 2016.

Edited by Wombat3 on Tuesday 14th May 19:11

[Riff Raff]

Wombat3 said:

As if we should be grateful for the fact that we avoided getting involved in irreversible fiscal & political integration by calling it an "opt out". It was more of a "no, fk off, that's a stupid idea" I think

I was more referencing the behaviour of the EU post 2016.

Edited by Wombat3 on Tuesday 14th May 19:11

What? A club looking after the interests of its members? As opposed to those of a former member that spent its political capital hurling brickbats? Colour me surprised.

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

Missed out, the decision was made in 2022 this is just about who is building the facility. Did you not actually read the story you posted?

Parrot for VS.

Although now you mention it, the UK loses out on the finance services too.

M

[Wombat3]

Riff Raff said:

Wombat3 said:

As if we should be grateful for the fact that we avoided getting involved in irreversible fiscal & political integration by calling it an "opt out". It was more of a "no, fk off, that's a stupid idea" I think

I was more referencing the behaviour of the EU post 2016.

Edited by Wombat3 on Tuesday 14th May 19:11

What? A club looking after the interests of its members? As opposed to those of a former member that spent its political capital hurling brickbats? Colour me surprised.

Exactly, they appear not to understand the first principle of deal-making - the only one that works in the long term is a Win-Win deal.

The EU does not think like that. The "project" is paramount, Its very one-dimensional.

(If they were genuinely offended by some of the questions that were being asked then maybe they need to grow a thicker skin. The problem was more likely a case of a few uncomfortable home truths coming home to roost).

[Murph7355]

James6112 said:

Was it worth it?

No

Zero benefits..

Im glad its a total disaster!

Doesn’t affect me, as I’m not the archetypal Berxit voter, blaming their woes on the EU.

Thankfully that type was hit hardest

The lady doth protest to much, methinks.

[CivicDuties]

Remember when we did away with the vast majority of border checks on goods by mutual agreement with our most important and geographically closest trading partners, and the range and quality of fresh food suddenly became far better in the UK? Be nice to go back to those sensible, mutually beneficial and pragmatic arrangements, wouldn't it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/...

But no. They got voted away by people who wanted rid of Polish signs over shop fronts, but couldn't say that out loud, so they pretended they were concerned about how much plasterers got paid and made stuff up about burdens on public services which weren't born out by the actual reality of the situation, and haven't improved one iota since leaving because the actual problem was the ideological right wing political party in charge of the country for the last 14 years and their chronic refusal to invest in those public services.

[911hope]

redback911 said:

To be fair, the Brexit decision was not an intelligence test; but it did require some critical thinking skills.

Would not have been too hard to ask themselves something like..

What might the impact of making it harder to trade with the most important trading partner?

Or

What happens when all those EU workers can no longer operate in our essential services?

Or

Is that slogan on the bus a big fat lie?

Or

[CloudStuff]

911hope said:

redback911 said:

To be fair, the Brexit decision was not an intelligence test; but it did require some critical thinking skills.

Would not have been too hard to ask themselves something like..

What might the impact of making it harder to trade with the most important trading partner?

Or

What happens when all those EU workers can no longer operate in our essential services?

Or

Is that slogan on the bus a big fat lie?

Or

Way beyond the comprehension of the kind of people who get totally dumbfounded by the choice of "have" or "of".

[redback911]

The following X thread is worth a read.

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1790650534...



Provides some insight into the boroder checks for trade.

[bad company]

CivicDuties said:

Remember when we did away with the vast majority of border checks on goods by mutual agreement with our most important and geographically closest trading partners, and the range and quality of fresh food suddenly became far better in the UK? Be nice to go back to those sensible, mutually beneficial and pragmatic arrangements, wouldn't it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/...

But no. They got voted away by people who wanted rid of Polish signs over shop fronts, but couldn't say that out loud, so they pretended they were concerned about how much plasterers got paid and made stuff up about burdens on public services which weren't born out by the actual reality of the situation, and haven't improved one iota since leaving because the actual problem was the ideological right wing political party in charge of the country for the last 14 years and their chronic refusal to invest in those public services.

Absolute condescending bull***t. A majority voted to leave for a variety of reasons. I was very torn and undecided but in the end voted to leave.

Yes a small minority of leave voters are probably racist .

Edited by bad company on Thursday 16th May 09:17

[blueg33]

bad company said:

CivicDuties said:

Remember when we did away with the vast majority of border checks on goods by mutual agreement with our most important and geographically closest trading partners, and the range and quality of fresh food suddenly became far better in the UK? Be nice to go back to those sensible, mutually beneficial and pragmatic arrangements, wouldn't it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/...

But no. They got voted away by people who wanted rid of Polish signs over shop fronts, but couldn't say that out loud, so they pretended they were concerned about how much plasterers got paid and made stuff up about burdens on public services which weren't born out by the actual reality of the situation, and haven't improved one iota since leaving because the actual problem was the ideological right wing political party in charge of the country for the last 14 years and their chronic refusal to invest in those public services.

Absolute condescending bull***t. A majority voted to leave for a variety of reasons. I was very torn and undecided but in the end voted to leave.

The majority of the reasons people choose to vote leave were misguided because they were misled/conned.

You only have to listed back to some of the people who called into various LBC programmes to hear the insane reasons given, but they range from;

Not being able to have fish and chips in news paper, through laws that they couldn't describe but didn't want to brown people running corner shops. then there are those who swallowed a bus whole and though JRM had their best interests at heart.

[redback911]

bad company said:

Absolute condescending bull***t. A majority voted to leave for a variety of reasons. I was very torn and undecided but in the end voted to leave.

Yes a small minority of leave voters are probably racist .

Racism, nationalism, and post-colonial sentiments were factors that influenced some people's votes for Brexit. While these reasons may not have driven the majority, they were certainly not outliers either.

Personal experiences can vary, but in Cumbria, there was a significant rise in race-related hate crimes following the Brexit vote. I witnessed and heard about multiple instances of European hotel and hospitality staff in The Lakes being told they were no longer welcome. I personally witnessed, several EU-funded signs for broadband, bridges, and walking paths were defaced, too.

[redback911]

One lively debate I saw.