Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
The "Where it went wrong" document written by today's witness is very good and I think is an excellent summary of the whole thing. The main issue as I've always seen it is actually not "Horizon bugs", but the PO's whole attitude towards the Sub-Postmasters.
https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/eviden...
Just getting back to this and he seems to have been honest and open from the day he started at POL. Telling Chris Aujard he was being silly with his attitude to SS! Wonder what his less than polite opinion was? 
And he calls out Mark Davies for bulls
t! 
This guy is going up in my estimations!
And he calls out Mark Davies for bulls
t! This guy is going up in my estimations!Edited by Short Grain on Friday 17th May 17:29
Wills2 said:
Fastpedeller said:
Wills2 said:
Fastpedeller said:
I was having some thought whilst watching today's inquiry........ I agree the enquiry is the correct course of action, but was thinking it must be costing millions which could have been given to the victims. If it's already been agreed convictions should be overturned then more money is available without being spent on the inquiry. This made me think more positively about another possibility of WHY this is continuing....... will we see real justice taking place rather than the 'lessons learnt' ?
I would imagine that the SPMs affected want this inquiry, it's important to them that the truth comes out publicly, it's the right thing to do to have the details laid bare for all that care to watch to see. The quashing of the convictions and the offer of gov paid compensation is a separate matter to the public questioning of those involved, why should those that perpetrated this miscarriage of justice not have a light shone on their actions, this is after all the biggest legal scandal in the history of the UK and if that doesn't merit a public investigation then nothing does and where would that leave us?
The inquiry does pave the way for criminal charges brought either by the CPS or as Bates has suggested privately.
I agree that once due process has happened then those convicted should have their assets seized as proceeds of crime (although I doubt the act is worded in a way to allow that)
When it comes to compensation the sums mentioned (£600k I think was the last one offered by the gov) are trifling in comparison to what some have suffered, 20+ years of earnings, plus wrong conviction and jail, loss of opportunity and reputational damage, mental health damage and of course suicide, even £1 million doesn't even touch the sides.
I'd like to see huge compensation paid to those affected and we are talking about £ billions but that's what they have had taken from them so it needs to be given back plus damages for the hurt and pain.
Fastpedeller said:
Absolutely BTW, no issues at all with your first reply, I was just adding some clarity if needed. I agree with your sentiments re payments - many months ago I posted a message with a 'finger in the air' estimate for all those years etc and came up with 1.75M to each victim. The whole thing is so heartless, and I can see PO suggesting Alan Bates shouldn't get as much because he was never charged - vindictive or what. AB is the a true hero of justice, because without his actions this may never have emerged (with due credit to others such as Lord Arbuthnot). What a sorry example of UK this is.
Has that actually been put forward by POL? Haven't seen anything but it wouldn't surprise me tbh! He is the one responsible for POL's woes, as far as they are concerned! The fact they deserve everything they get is something a lot of them will never admit to themselves, despite the regular ' Mea Culpa' we get at the start of every appearance! AB lost his job and spent years trying to get justice. Would be poetic justice if POL ended up paying for his time, even indirectly! All in my honest opinion of course, and I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, or lawyer!
The email from Perkins is very illuminating, basically SS/MPs/Bates getting too close to exposing the truth, the big win being continuing the cover up by shutting these people down, she applies pressure to Lyons for arranging a meeting that doesn't give the "correct" outcome.
The following email is even worse!
The following email is even worse!
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 21st May 12:10
Not seen much of todays testimony but from what I have seen is that she is another one ascribing different meaning to words written down than any other reasonable person would infer. Also quite combative in her responses.
looks to me she was in the position because she had the right attitude and mindset that suited the rest of the management team.
sociopath.
looks to me she was in the position because she had the right attitude and mindset that suited the rest of the management team.
sociopath.
"I don't recall, not that I can remember" doing a lot of heavy lifting again! Must have been a requirement in your cv when applying for a position at RMG & POL at the time!
'Must have Selective Memory, and the ability to cover your arse!'
Sir Wyn is sharp as a tack, despite listening to lots of guff day after day. Strangely, his questions do seem to elicit a more definite response!
'Must have Selective Memory, and the ability to cover your arse!'
Sir Wyn is sharp as a tack, despite listening to lots of guff day after day. Strangely, his questions do seem to elicit a more definite response!
Edited by Short Grain on Tuesday 21st May 15:10
Short Grain said:
"I don't recall, not that I can remember" doing a lot of heavy lifting again! Must have been a requirement in your cv when applying for a position at RMG & POL at the time!
yeah it'd be consistent with the way the overriding impression one gets is that they only ever appointed candidates who forgot to show up for their interview. PlywoodPascal said:
Short Grain said:
"I don't recall, not that I can remember" doing a lot of heavy lifting again! Must have been a requirement in your cv when applying for a position at RMG & POL at the time!
yeah it'd be consistent with the way the overriding impression one gets is that they only ever appointed candidates who forgot to show up for their interview. ziggy328 said:
I have a feeling the next 3 days with PV are not going to be as "good" as we would all like them to be!
I've said all along that she'll play the religion bit. She'll claim that 'greater powers' told her what to do. Everything else will be twaddle, or 'I can't remember'.A very nasty piece of work.
Before the main meal the hors d'oeuvre - https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-21/paula-vennells...
It's smokinnn !
Ch4 confronted Lyons leaving the enquiry, didn't know she has a gong too; was asked if she was returning it. Got a tad fractious.
OBE .....Services to the P.O. 2018. Not bad for someone who had to find out what her job entailed.
It's smokinnn !
Ch4 confronted Lyons leaving the enquiry, didn't know she has a gong too; was asked if she was returning it. Got a tad fractious.
OBE .....Services to the P.O. 2018. Not bad for someone who had to find out what her job entailed.
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