CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
jameswills said:
I’ve kept the leaflet, I’ve kept everything, because history is being rewritten every day. Side effects include a headache, feeling tired, sore arm. No mention of blood clots, myocarditis or death. They made it sound like it had been around for 30 years and was about a risky as popping a multivitamin.
So had I, hence being able to quote what it said and how only recommended, at that point, for over 65s.I also have the letter I received from the NHS telling me, and every other NHS employee, that unless I had my first dose by a certain date, then I would no longer be able to undertake patient facing duties and depending on circumstances, I may be dismissed. I was and still am a volunteer driver for the local ambulance patient transport service.
We also had the ludicrous situations for a while where patients were free to not wear a mask but we still, technically, had to.
jameswills said:
Elysium said:
The vaccines significantly reduced everyone’s chances of dying from COVID when first exposed. They are largely meaningless beyond that point.
There is no evidence of this. Especially considering we had a whole year of exposure before the “vaccines” were introduced Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
Elysium said:
There is evidence. I’ve shared it many times in the thread.
Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
You haven’t shared anything that can conclude anything one way or another. Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
What’s odd though, going back to anecdotes, is that I didn’t know anyone who was ill or had “Covid” in 2020 until they started doing the mass testing. Then once the “vaccines” came along the statistics got all out of whack, and suddenly people were ill left right and centre. Not saying due to vaccines, but certainly I’d say something psychological was going on in the population.
So whatever data you shared, do you know if those people were actually sick or tested positive? Can you tell if they would have benefited from the “vaccine” or maybe from another treatment or not taking it at all? Is there age stratifying data for all of that?
We know during Covid that the mortality age actually rose, it was statistically better for you to have Covid than not.
I said it before, the statistically analysis of all of this is so messy it’s totally unreliable. Go back to what you saw with your own eyes and make a judgement.
Elysium said:
There is evidence. I’ve shared it many times in the thread.
Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
And were treated as idiots by many many people………Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
What happened between 15m jabs to freedom in early 21 to the NHS getting very close to mandating it for staff in December 21 until they saw sense in January 22?
And all the other stuff, including having to be vaccinated to watch a premier league football match which was talked about in autumn 21.
The deaths from heart problems is interesting but I believe the problem is worse, out of my small group of friends and relatives my brother and two brother in laws all have heart problems now and even worse two plumbers in know have pack in work due to heart problems 
My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
pavarotti1980 said:
Vaccines were never said to be 100% effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9B5AWjglMPfizer disagree.
PRTVR said:
The deaths from heart problems is interesting but I believe the problem is worse, out of my small group of friends and relatives my brother and two brother in laws all have heart problems now and even worse two plumbers in know have pack in work due to heart problems
My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
Sorry to hear about that and for wife. Hopefully the treatment will be successful.My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
Doctors saying “they hoped not” doesn’t fill one with confidence does it?
Boringvolvodriver said:
And were treated as idiots by many many people………
What happened between 15m jabs to freedom in early 21 to the NHS getting very close to mandating it for staff in December 21 until they saw sense in January 22?
And all the other stuff, including having to be vaccinated to watch a premier league football match which was talked about in autumn 21.
Let’s not forget, nearly every game once the Prem restarted resulted in being stopped because of “an incident in the crowd”. This happened weekly.What happened between 15m jabs to freedom in early 21 to the NHS getting very close to mandating it for staff in December 21 until they saw sense in January 22?
And all the other stuff, including having to be vaccinated to watch a premier league football match which was talked about in autumn 21.
Another anecdote, Captain Tom did OK during Covid not very well after the vaccine. Same for Prince Philip, the Queen, and maybe the new King and Kate. Obviously anecdotal nonsense, but it actually bares stark similarity to what I saw. 2020, all people had cash to burn and nice tans, after I went to funerals, saw strokes, cancers and general malaise.
The “vaccine” in my eyes did absolutely nothing to improve the health of the nation, and that is the end of it for me.
jameswills said:
Elysium said:
There is evidence. I’ve shared it many times in the thread.
Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
You haven’t shared anything that can conclude anything one way or another. Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
What’s odd though, going back to anecdotes, is that I didn’t know anyone who was ill or had “Covid” in 2020 until they started doing the mass testing. Then once the “vaccines” came along the statistics got all out of whack, and suddenly people were ill left right and centre. Not saying due to vaccines, but certainly I’d say something psychological was going on in the population.
So whatever data you shared, do you know if those people were actually sick or tested positive? Can you tell if they would have benefited from the “vaccine” or maybe from another treatment or not taking it at all? Is there age stratifying data for all of that?
We know during Covid that the mortality age actually rose, it was statistically better for you to have Covid than not.
I said it before, the statistically analysis of all of this is so messy it’s totally unreliable. Go back to what you saw with your own eyes and make a judgement.
This is public health benefit at population scale. It’s never going to be possible to point at an individual and say that they were the ones who would have died.
I took the vaccine before having COVID. The official figures said I had a 4% chance of hospitalisation. I felt pretty bullish about that, but decided on balance that I had more to risk from the disease than the vaccines.
I am pleased to say the jabs didn’t kill me and that when I eventually had COVID that didn’t kill me either. Although it did tire me enough that I came away with an understanding of why some people had struggled to see it off.
Did I gain from the vaccine? No idea. It was certainly overplayed even then. The whole thing felt like a political propaganda campaign rather than a matter of public safety. But it was my choice.
I was however very directly coerced into having a booster I didn’t want or need. At that point I was already double vaccinated and had recovered from COVID. It was obviously going to do nothing to benefit me or anyone else. I asked my MP why I should have it and he could not say. He asked others, including the CMO and Lord Bethell. Neither could say.
Boringvolvodriver said:
PRTVR said:
The deaths from heart problems is interesting but I believe the problem is worse, out of my small group of friends and relatives my brother and two brother in laws all have heart problems now and even worse two plumbers in know have pack in work due to heart problems
My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
Sorry to hear about that and for wife. Hopefully the treatment will be successful.My wife has cancer along with 4 people we know, when she visited the specialist she asked the question, could it be because of the vacine, the reply was they hoped not, but there has been a large increase in cases.
Doctors saying “they hoped not” doesn’t fill one with confidence does it?
Thanks,Wife had her operation and it went very well, just waiting for radiotherapy, must say from a person who has had a lot of problems with the NHS over the years her care and treatment has been fantastic .
Boringvolvodriver said:
Elysium said:
There is evidence. I’ve shared it many times in the thread.
Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
And were treated as idiots by many many people………Obviously you only benefited if you got vaccinated before contracting COVID. As you correctly say, by the time that the vaccine was offered to younger people many had already had the disease.
The other factor is how meaningful that significant reduction is to the individual. From memory the the over 80’s saw a 50% reduction in mortality from vaccination.
If their unvaccinated risk was a CFR of 10% then that means 5 lives saved for every 100 jabbed. A pretty decent outcome if you are one of those 5.
But if you are young and healthy, with only a 1 in 20,000 risk of death, then that 50% reduction isn’t going to feel that important.
That’s the issue. The jabs made sense for the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning of the pandemic. We should simply have stopped there. As many of us said at the time.
What happened between 15m jabs to freedom in early 21 to the NHS getting very close to mandating it for staff in December 21 until they saw sense in January 22?
And all the other stuff, including having to be vaccinated to watch a premier league football match which was talked about in autumn 21.
But we didn’t.
The reason was that the elderly vaccinated still got infected and many of them still died.
Instead of accepting that was the best we could do, we went through increasingly desperate attempts to jab everyone on the planet, before eventually realising that it made no difference.
The first 15m vaccines saved lives in the UK. The other 30m achieved almost nothing.
jameswills said:
Let’s not forget, nearly every game once the Prem restarted resulted in being stopped because of “an incident in the crowd”. This happened weekly.
Utter rubbish. A very small number of games were interrupted, no more. Perhaps those that were, were caused by the virus. Or lack of NHS treatment. Or the stress of lockdown. "Nearly every game"
Another anecdote, Captain Tom did OK during Covid not very well after the vaccine. Same for Prince Philip, the Queen, and maybe the new King and Kate. Obviously anecdotal nonsense, but it actually bares stark similarity to what I saw. 2020, all people had cash to burn and nice tans, after I went to funerals, saw strokes, cancers and general malaise.
Oh come off it. Captain Tom was 100+ years old. Did you think he'd live forever? Our beloved Queen wasn't much younger but for you to insinuate she died due to Covid vaccination is pathetic. Have another Oh, and I haven't been to any funerals, nor seen any strokes or 'general malaise, whatever that means. Anecdotes, eh? They can show whatever you want them to.
The “vaccine” in my eyes did absolutely nothing to improve the health of the nation, and that is the end of it for me.Nonsense. The data is very clear that Covid vaccines had a dramatic positive effect on mortality in elderly patients and that's a fact.
Sorry James but you're sounding almost as unhinged as r3g. Almost.Utter rubbish. A very small number of games were interrupted, no more. Perhaps those that were, were caused by the virus. Or lack of NHS treatment. Or the stress of lockdown. "Nearly every game"
Another anecdote, Captain Tom did OK during Covid not very well after the vaccine. Same for Prince Philip, the Queen, and maybe the new King and Kate. Obviously anecdotal nonsense, but it actually bares stark similarity to what I saw. 2020, all people had cash to burn and nice tans, after I went to funerals, saw strokes, cancers and general malaise.
Oh come off it. Captain Tom was 100+ years old. Did you think he'd live forever? Our beloved Queen wasn't much younger but for you to insinuate she died due to Covid vaccination is pathetic. Have another
Oh, and I haven't been to any funerals, nor seen any strokes or 'general malaise, whatever that means. Anecdotes, eh? They can show whatever you want them to.The “vaccine” in my eyes did absolutely nothing to improve the health of the nation, and that is the end of it for me.Nonsense. The data is very clear that Covid vaccines had a dramatic positive effect on mortality in elderly patients and that's a fact.
Elysium said:
Earlier this week I shared a link to the UKHSA vaccine surveillance reports. They include incredible amounts of data and references to external studies that back up what I am saying. The vaccines did provide a benefit for everyone that took them prior to their first exposure to COVID.
This is public health benefit at population scale. It’s never going to be possible to point at an individual and say that they were the ones who would have died.
I took the vaccine before having COVID. The official figures said I had a 4% chance of hospitalisation. I felt pretty bullish about that, but decided on balance that I had more to risk from the disease than the vaccines.
I am pleased to say the jabs didn’t kill me and that when I eventually had COVID that didn’t kill me either. Although it did tire me enough that I came away with an understanding of why some people had struggled to see it off.
Did I gain from the vaccine? No idea. It was certainly overplayed even then. The whole thing felt like a political propaganda campaign rather than a matter of public safety. But it was my choice.
I was however very directly coerced into having a booster I didn’t want or need. At that point I was already double vaccinated and had recovered from COVID. It was obviously going to do nothing to benefit me or anyone else. I asked my MP why I should have it and he could not say. He asked others, including the CMO and Lord Bethell. Neither could say.
How did they measure “prior exposure to Covid”? Did they compare it to 2020 when pretty much no one died of it if they weren’t in a care home, ventillated or given end of life treatment?This is public health benefit at population scale. It’s never going to be possible to point at an individual and say that they were the ones who would have died.
I took the vaccine before having COVID. The official figures said I had a 4% chance of hospitalisation. I felt pretty bullish about that, but decided on balance that I had more to risk from the disease than the vaccines.
I am pleased to say the jabs didn’t kill me and that when I eventually had COVID that didn’t kill me either. Although it did tire me enough that I came away with an understanding of why some people had struggled to see it off.
Did I gain from the vaccine? No idea. It was certainly overplayed even then. The whole thing felt like a political propaganda campaign rather than a matter of public safety. But it was my choice.
I was however very directly coerced into having a booster I didn’t want or need. At that point I was already double vaccinated and had recovered from COVID. It was obviously going to do nothing to benefit me or anyone else. I asked my MP why I should have it and he could not say. He asked others, including the CMO and Lord Bethell. Neither could say.
I have followed your posts for a few years now, and you’ve been great. I hate talking personal as it skews points and is just a point scoring exercise, and that serves no purpose, not for me anyway. I would just say now you’re starting to talk in the double speak that I see now from people who have come to believe in the last 4 years was actually real. “Booster”, “double vaccinated”, these aren’t normal talk for our health, certainly wasn’t a few years ago. I too was deep deep in the statistical, I’ve since given up as the more I gathered the more it became murky and distorted. Not that it didn’t fit my hypothesis, it just got messier and messier and confusing. I mean look how they present the latest ONS death stats, why the hell anyone would change it to be represented like that is crazy. I could write macros to sort it out, but I’ve given up, and it makes me question any of the data I’ve collected before.
Elysium said:
This is where the problem lies for me. If we had stopped everything after those 15m jabs it would have been OK.
But we didn’t.
The reason was that the elderly vaccinated still got infected and many of them still died.
Instead of accepting that was the best we could do, we went through increasingly desperate attempts to jab everyone on the planet, before eventually realising that it made no difference.
The first 15m vaccines saved lives in the UK. The other 30m achieved almost nothing.
I can’t disagree with your last sentence - in fact most people should be able to go along with it.But we didn’t.
The reason was that the elderly vaccinated still got infected and many of them still died.
Instead of accepting that was the best we could do, we went through increasingly desperate attempts to jab everyone on the planet, before eventually realising that it made no difference.
The first 15m vaccines saved lives in the UK. The other 30m achieved almost nothing.
Like you, it all goes wrong when there was what almost amounted to coercion for all and sundry to be vaccinated aided and abetted by the media and celebrities. The idea of mandates was clearly wrong but any one who dared to oppose then was almost branded as a right wing racist facist. The level that people like being told what to do still frightens me if I am honest.
The other question, which we will never get an answer to, is why exactly did the policy change from the 15m jabs to freedom to what we saw? The Covid Inquiry won’t find out I suspect………..
PRTVR said:
I get the impression that they limit what they say for obvious reasons.
Thanks,Wife had her operation and it went very well, just waiting for radiotherapy, must say from a person who has had a lot of problems with the NHS over the years her care and treatment has been fantastic .
In my experience of taking a lot of people to and from radiotherapy treatment over the last 5 years as a volunteer driver the cancer care and treatment is pretty damn good and I have not had anyone complaining at all. Thanks,Wife had her operation and it went very well, just waiting for radiotherapy, must say from a person who has had a lot of problems with the NHS over the years her care and treatment has been fantastic .
Hants PHer said:
jameswills said:
Let’s not forget, nearly every game once the Prem restarted resulted in being stopped because of “an incident in the crowd”. This happened weekly.
Utter rubbish. A very small number of games were interrupted, no more. Perhaps those that were, were caused by the virus. Or lack of NHS treatment. Or the stress of lockdown. "Nearly every game"
Another anecdote, Captain Tom did OK during Covid not very well after the vaccine. Same for Prince Philip, the Queen, and maybe the new King and Kate. Obviously anecdotal nonsense, but it actually bares stark similarity to what I saw. 2020, all people had cash to burn and nice tans, after I went to funerals, saw strokes, cancers and general malaise.
Oh come off it. Captain Tom was 100+ years old. Did you think he'd live forever? Our beloved Queen wasn't much younger but for you to insinuate she died due to Covid vaccination is pathetic. Have another Oh, and I haven't been to any funerals, nor seen any strokes or 'general malaise, whatever that means. Anecdotes, eh? They can show whatever you want them to.
The “vaccine” in my eyes did absolutely nothing to improve the health of the nation, and that is the end of it for me.Nonsense. The data is very clear that Covid vaccines had a dramatic positive effect on mortality in elderly patients and that's a fact.
Sorry James but you're sounding almost as unhinged as r3g. Almost.Utter rubbish. A very small number of games were interrupted, no more. Perhaps those that were, were caused by the virus. Or lack of NHS treatment. Or the stress of lockdown. "Nearly every game"
Another anecdote, Captain Tom did OK during Covid not very well after the vaccine. Same for Prince Philip, the Queen, and maybe the new King and Kate. Obviously anecdotal nonsense, but it actually bares stark similarity to what I saw. 2020, all people had cash to burn and nice tans, after I went to funerals, saw strokes, cancers and general malaise.
Oh come off it. Captain Tom was 100+ years old. Did you think he'd live forever? Our beloved Queen wasn't much younger but for you to insinuate she died due to Covid vaccination is pathetic. Have another
Oh, and I haven't been to any funerals, nor seen any strokes or 'general malaise, whatever that means. Anecdotes, eh? They can show whatever you want them to.The “vaccine” in my eyes did absolutely nothing to improve the health of the nation, and that is the end of it for me.Nonsense. The data is very clear that Covid vaccines had a dramatic positive effect on mortality in elderly patients and that's a fact.
jameswills said:
What’s odd though, going back to anecdotes, is that I didn’t know anyone who was ill or had “Covid” in 2020 until they started doing the mass testing. Then once the “vaccines” came along the statistics got all out of whack, and suddenly people were ill left right and centre. Not saying due to vaccines, but certainly I’d say something psychological was going on in the population.
The thing is though that almost for everyone on here that knows people dropping like flies left, right and centre there are those like me and Hants who haven't noticed any appreciable difference.I don't know anyone with the litany of issues that have been reported by others when surely, if it was so widespread, I would do.
amongst almost 150 people, I don't know anyone with blood clots, turbo cancers, dropping dead of heart attacks, etc, etc, etc.
Does that honestly not strike you as odd? I have no skin in the game, if I could go back I would have stuck to my guns and not had had 2 juice jabs.
jameswills said:
Elysium said:
Earlier this week I shared a link to the UKHSA vaccine surveillance reports. They include incredible amounts of data and references to external studies that back up what I am saying. The vaccines did provide a benefit for everyone that took them prior to their first exposure to COVID.
This is public health benefit at population scale. It’s never going to be possible to point at an individual and say that they were the ones who would have died.
I took the vaccine before having COVID. The official figures said I had a 4% chance of hospitalisation. I felt pretty bullish about that, but decided on balance that I had more to risk from the disease than the vaccines.
I am pleased to say the jabs didn’t kill me and that when I eventually had COVID that didn’t kill me either. Although it did tire me enough that I came away with an understanding of why some people had struggled to see it off.
Did I gain from the vaccine? No idea. It was certainly overplayed even then. The whole thing felt like a political propaganda campaign rather than a matter of public safety. But it was my choice.
I was however very directly coerced into having a booster I didn’t want or need. At that point I was already double vaccinated and had recovered from COVID. It was obviously going to do nothing to benefit me or anyone else. I asked my MP why I should have it and he could not say. He asked others, including the CMO and Lord Bethell. Neither could say.
How did they measure “prior exposure to Covid”? Did they compare it to 2020 when pretty much no one died of it if they weren’t in a care home, ventillated or given end of life treatment?This is public health benefit at population scale. It’s never going to be possible to point at an individual and say that they were the ones who would have died.
I took the vaccine before having COVID. The official figures said I had a 4% chance of hospitalisation. I felt pretty bullish about that, but decided on balance that I had more to risk from the disease than the vaccines.
I am pleased to say the jabs didn’t kill me and that when I eventually had COVID that didn’t kill me either. Although it did tire me enough that I came away with an understanding of why some people had struggled to see it off.
Did I gain from the vaccine? No idea. It was certainly overplayed even then. The whole thing felt like a political propaganda campaign rather than a matter of public safety. But it was my choice.
I was however very directly coerced into having a booster I didn’t want or need. At that point I was already double vaccinated and had recovered from COVID. It was obviously going to do nothing to benefit me or anyone else. I asked my MP why I should have it and he could not say. He asked others, including the CMO and Lord Bethell. Neither could say.
I have followed your posts for a few years now, and you’ve been great. I hate talking personal as it skews points and is just a point scoring exercise, and that serves no purpose, not for me anyway. I would just say now you’re starting to talk in the double speak that I see now from people who have come to believe in the last 4 years was actually real. “Booster”, “double vaccinated”, these aren’t normal talk for our health, certainly wasn’t a few years ago. I too was deep deep in the statistical, I’ve since given up as the more I gathered the more it became murky and distorted. Not that it didn’t fit my hypothesis, it just got messier and messier and confusing. I mean look how they present the latest ONS death stats, why the hell anyone would change it to be represented like that is crazy. I could write macros to sort it out, but I’ve given up, and it makes me question any of the data I’ve collected before.
I believe this is why people played down infection derived immunity. They worried that we would refuse the vaccine if we thought we were already immune. So they told what they thought were white lies. They said only vaccines could bring immunity. It was obvious nonsense, but medics and health professionals lined up to endorse it. Because they thought it was better, on balance, to risk the jab than the virus.
This is where it started to break down.
Our disagreement is that you think the vaccine was entirely pointless and/or actively dangerous. Whereas I think it was likely to have been beneficial to vulnerable people in specific circumstances, but wrongly forced onto people that did not need it.
I think we also agree that the people it was forced onto may have been harmed by it.
Unfortunately, I do think that the last 4 years was real. We faced a new disease that was very little threat to most of us, but a significant danger to the elderly and vulnerable. I think our response to that did far more harm than good.
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