UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda

[ChocolateFrog]

Mojooo said:

Wonder what Arsenal FC think about all this (they are sponsored by Rwanda)

Their president (or PM) was at the ground last week.

I assume it's been discussed.

[Earthdweller]

E63eeeeee... said:

Earthdweller said:

E63eeeeee... said:

Earthdweller said:

E63eeeeee... said:

1. Neither true nor particularly relevant
2.

Your graph shows nothing

Maybe try on a laptop or something.

I can see the graph but it’s meaningless and shows nothing in relation to the determination of which country should deal with an asylum claim under the Dublin agreement and the speedy return to that country of the claimant

More were transferrred in to the U.K. than transferred out

Or looked at another way, it show that the trough in UK asylum intake from 2003 to 2020 coincided with the period between the launch of Dublin 2 and the UK leaving the agreement. Now this might have been a complete and remarkable coincidence (spoiler: it wasn't) or it might be the case that a system for sending people straight back to mainland Europe deterred them from giving smugglers thousands of pounds to get them to the UK.

If you're still struggling, it's the second one.

You keep saying more people were transferred to the UK than to other places. I don't think that's true overall, although it was after Brexit for some reason. Where are you getting your data from?

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/444/transfers-of-asylum-seekers-from-the-uk-under-the-dublin-system#:~:text=There%20were%20just%20209%20transfers,and%209%20of%20the%20Regulation.

U.K. Gov/Eurostat figures published above

[bitchstewie]

I thought the frothers would be a lot happier now someone had gone to Rwanda no?

[E63eeeeee...]

Earthdweller said:

E63eeeeee... said:

Earthdweller said:

E63eeeeee... said:

Earthdweller said:

E63eeeeee... said:

1. Neither true nor particularly relevant
2.

Your graph shows nothing

Maybe try on a laptop or something.

I can see the graph but it’s meaningless and shows nothing in relation to the determination of which country should deal with an asylum claim under the Dublin agreement and the speedy return to that country of the claimant

More were transferrred in to the U.K. than transferred out

Or looked at another way, it show that the trough in UK asylum intake from 2003 to 2020 coincided with the period between the launch of Dublin 2 and the UK leaving the agreement. Now this might have been a complete and remarkable coincidence (spoiler: it wasn't) or it might be the case that a system for sending people straight back to mainland Europe deterred them from giving smugglers thousands of pounds to get them to the UK.

If you're still struggling, it's the second one.

You keep saying more people were transferred to the UK than to other places. I don't think that's true overall, although it was after Brexit for some reason. Where are you getting your data from?

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/444/transfers-of-asylum-seekers-from-the-uk-under-the-dublin-system#:~:text=There%20were%20just%20209%20transfers,and%209%20of%20the%20Regulation.

U.K. Gov/Eurostat figures published above

Top tip, don't rely on MigrationWatch as authoritative, or knowledgeable people will laugh at you, they're prone to misuse of and manipulation of statistics.

For example, in your link, they seem to be ignoring the earlier years when more people were removed than brought in.

But either way, as with a number of posters on this thread they are focusing too narrowly and completely ignoring the deterrent effects of Dublin. Focusing on the numbers sent either way doesn't tell you whether it worked for the UK. It's a completely different scale of effect when you're talking about a few thousand moved versus tens of thousands fewer arriving in the first place.

[crankedup5]

So what happens next resulting from Isle of Ireland kicking off deciding it will send back migrants into the U.K. High Court here they come?

[z4RRSchris]

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

[119]

And then we have stories like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

[272BHP]

119 said:

And then we have stories like this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Truly tragic and disgraceful that the French police on the beach just stood by and allowed that disaster to unfold on their watch. Inexplicably the French border police then allowed what was then a crime scene to carry on its journey to the UK.

And we now have a number of migrants in our country who had no qualms about stomping a little girl to death beneath their feet so they could claim their spot on that boat.

[Mr Penguin]

Interesting that Belgium, France, Finland, and Sweden all think that Basra is safe but did not actually do anything with him.

[E63eeeeee...]

Ridgemont said:

E63eeeeee... said:

This is a weird argument. I'm not suggesting Dublin was perfect and I've already said several times that it's obvious why it gradually failed, but it really couldn't be any more obvious that it was good for the UK for most of the time we were in it. Net inflows are far less relevant than its impact on intake.

Do you also think it was a coincidence that Albanian asylum intake fell off rapidly once we had a returns agreement in place with them? We already know that rapid processing and effective returns are the boringly effective way to bring down asylum intake and undermine smuggling.

Taking the first point, no it could be more obvious because you have taken a graph showing a rapidly declining asylum rate before the advent of Dublin and then paintshopped a wonky line showing the ‘Dublin’ affect.

And then pegged the uptick on Brexit. Which does not seem to correlate with for example Germany’s experience. But then you say ignore everyone else and pay attention to my infographic as done by Sesame Street.

Colour me unimpressed.

On the second: well yes. And that is unsurprisingly how this is all going to play out: specific agreements to address local circumstances because an ‘EU wide resolution system’ means the square root of nothing. In the UK & Albania’s case they had to set up a dedicated ‘migration taskforce’ including specific checks on transits to the UK of Albanian citizens https://www.gov.uk/government/news/milestone-reach...

Or in the example of Germany from my earlier post 4000 returns out of 360000 applicants. A trend line increasing despite Dublin. Dublin is meaningless.

So now you're clipping inconvenient bits out of my posts.

What you appear to be claiming is that one returns agreement that coincides with a significantly lower intake is good, and another returns agreement that coincided with significantly lower intake is meaningless. Gotcha. I think we can leave it there, given my entire point is that returns agreements reduce intake and you are at least acknowledging that can be the case.

[s1962a]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68932830

First migrant has been flown out to Rwanda! We had to pay him £3k to go, but thats probably cheaper than paying for hotels here. Hope he doesn't try to come back.

[119]

Keep up.

[valiant]

272BHP said:

Truly tragic and disgraceful that the French police on the beach just stood by and allowed that disaster to unfold on their watch. Inexplicably the French border police then allowed what was then a crime scene to carry on its journey to the UK.

And we now have a number of migrants in our country who had no qualms about stomping a little girl to death beneath their feet so they could claim their spot on that boat.

The police will not enter the water to stop migrant boats. They will not put themselves into danger from migrants who are acting aggressively towards them in an already dangerous environment. The police are often massively outnumbered from determined migrants.

Same with French border force boats. When they intercept flimsy crafts filled with people who will act aggressively as they don’t want to rescued by French authorities so will fight back and again, an already dangerous situation is massively magnified.

It really is the lesser of two evils to let them go. Yes, there’s a risk as we’ve seen with the latest tragedy but can you imagine if they died as a direct result of French enforcement? They’d be hell to pay.

If the roles were reversed, I’m sure U.K. police and Border Force would have acted in exactly the same way.

[crankedup5]

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

[E63eeeeee...]

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

Local elections are tomorrow, and results could be potentially decisive about which Tory leader takes them into the GE.

[z4RRSchris]

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

im saying what your saying.

uk wont accept them, its too politically valuable for Sunak to his core voters

[hairykrishna]

Why have we collectively paid some bloke with a failed asylum claim 3 grand to go to Rwanda? I wasn't aware that we had two bonkers Rwanda based schemes running in parallel.

I'd be interested in visiting Rwanda if the government fancies paying for my flight and giving me 3 grand.

[CivicDuties]

hairykrishna said:

Why have we collectively paid some bloke with a failed asylum claim 3 grand to go to Rwanda? I wasn't aware that we had two bonkers Rwanda based schemes running in parallel.

I'd be interested in visiting Rwanda if the government fancies paying for my flight and giving me 3 grand.

How brown are you?

[hairykrishna]

CivicDuties said:

How brown are you?

I'm not very brown but willing to meet them half way and put on an extremely racially insensitive accent?

[CivicDuties]

hairykrishna said:

CivicDuties said:

How brown are you?

I'm not very brown but willing to meet them half way and put on an extremely racially insensitive accent?

Hmm. Ok you're in. Please send bank details.