Moving to Scotland
Discussion
So we have found somewhere, but now comes the "whats it worth"....
To me its just such a vague system I am almost loathed to play the game.
I dont understand why there are 3 figures in scotland, the listed price, the HR value - which can be significantly above the listed price and then the actual price you want to pay / will pay which is some value above the HR value. It just seems like making things difficult with the sole purpose of getting people to put in ridiculous offers.
Anyway, rant over.
So.... I dont want to give full details but we have found something.
The house is right at the top of our budget.
Its listed for significantly more than what it last sold for a few years ago.
The HR is obviously above that.
So we need to have a sit down and look at the numbers.
My first question is.. would it be rude to offer less than the home report?
Not a lot less, but just a bit less.
Or is that rude?
To me its just such a vague system I am almost loathed to play the game.
I dont understand why there are 3 figures in scotland, the listed price, the HR value - which can be significantly above the listed price and then the actual price you want to pay / will pay which is some value above the HR value. It just seems like making things difficult with the sole purpose of getting people to put in ridiculous offers.
Anyway, rant over.
So.... I dont want to give full details but we have found something.
The house is right at the top of our budget.
Its listed for significantly more than what it last sold for a few years ago.
The HR is obviously above that.
So we need to have a sit down and look at the numbers.
My first question is.. would it be rude to offer less than the home report?
Not a lot less, but just a bit less.
Or is that rude?
I am Edinburgh based but unfortunately the answer is 'it depends'.
You're spot on with the 3 prices thing - I'm not from Edinburgh originally so the HR and paying over was all new to me.
So in Edinburgh, there will be places which always go over HR - regardless with what the rest of the city is doing - down to schools, just the part of town etc.
From memory the last status on espc suggested the average for last month was 101% of HR. So tells me that some go over, some go under.
Your solicitor (which I assume you've sorted as you can't submit a bid without them) if they are good, will do some leg work and look at the area, what stuff has sold for, and be able to suggest that they think.
You obviously don't need to listen to them...!
In short, if you don't want to bid over HR then don't, but depending on where it is, don't be shocked if you get a quick no...
Oh and sorry the last piece, provided the bottom doesn't fall out of the market (but again some areas in Scotland are more immune than others), your frustrations now with buying become your benefits when selling with regard to over HR.
You're spot on with the 3 prices thing - I'm not from Edinburgh originally so the HR and paying over was all new to me.
So in Edinburgh, there will be places which always go over HR - regardless with what the rest of the city is doing - down to schools, just the part of town etc.
From memory the last status on espc suggested the average for last month was 101% of HR. So tells me that some go over, some go under.
Your solicitor (which I assume you've sorted as you can't submit a bid without them) if they are good, will do some leg work and look at the area, what stuff has sold for, and be able to suggest that they think.
You obviously don't need to listen to them...!
In short, if you don't want to bid over HR then don't, but depending on where it is, don't be shocked if you get a quick no...
Oh and sorry the last piece, provided the bottom doesn't fall out of the market (but again some areas in Scotland are more immune than others), your frustrations now with buying become your benefits when selling with regard to over HR.
gotoPzero said:
My first question is.. would it be rude to offer less than the home report?
Not a lot less, but just a bit less.
Or is that rude?
Not rude at all. Not a lot less, but just a bit less.
Or is that rude?
However, you just need to bear in mind you are coming into a system where the seller has been told by a surveyor that their property is worth £x, and by the estate agent that properties sell for HR valuation or more, and they have 2 other interested parties, and you are coming from England where transactions can drag out and potentially cause them hassle.
So, why would they accept that offer?
I'm playing devil's advocate. I hate the system, my clients hate it, but I've worked within it for 20 years and sometimes you have to accept you need to play the game to win.
There are situations that are outliers where a seller may accept less than HR valuation, but there's usually a reason - no other interest, been on the market for ages, undesirable area, unmortgageable, distressed sale etc.
Worst case scenario they say no, contact the other parties that have noted interest and let them know an offer is on the table, which either triggers them to get their finger out and outbid you and get the property, or triggers the agent to set a closing date.
Edited by yellowbentines on Friday 17th May 08:58
gotoPzero said:
OK thanks I am going to call the solicitor now and see what she says.
Unless you're going to make a 'blow them away, too good to refuse' offer then a low initial offer isn't a bad idea - just don't get your hopes up.It lets them know you are keen, tests the water, and forces other potentially interested parties to play their hand.
The typical outcome is then a closing date for sealed best offers anyway - so it's good to hold back from your maximum at this stage unless as I say it's a silly big offer in which case slap it on the table!
If your low offer is refused, and no other parties counter offer, and no closing date is set, then it leaves the floor open for you to negotiate a little.
It's to fine to offer lower, especially if that's your final bid, but there is a big difference between a stale property with no interest, and a new property with notes. it would be very unusual to accept an offer under HR two weeks in with notes.
If you offer under HR on a competitive property, it will likely achieve little good. The agent will leverage that offer to other parties, (we have an offer on the table) which may spur fence sitters into action and fuel a more competitive closing date. And seller might interpret your offer as your best and final and largely forget about you.
When we last bought we made a low offer on a property with no bids that was ignored, we resubmitted the offer after it had been on 6 weeks without an offer, and then we negotiated a deal at HR. So it can work. But things tend to move quick in Scotland, so it was obvious at 6 weeks no closing date was on the table, and there wasn't enough interest for my lowball offer to stir anything up
If you offer under HR on a competitive property, it will likely achieve little good. The agent will leverage that offer to other parties, (we have an offer on the table) which may spur fence sitters into action and fuel a more competitive closing date. And seller might interpret your offer as your best and final and largely forget about you.
When we last bought we made a low offer on a property with no bids that was ignored, we resubmitted the offer after it had been on 6 weeks without an offer, and then we negotiated a deal at HR. So it can work. But things tend to move quick in Scotland, so it was obvious at 6 weeks no closing date was on the table, and there wasn't enough interest for my lowball offer to stir anything up
Edited by lizardbrain on Friday 17th May 11:32
gotoPzero said:
Does it change with value or is 10% considered the same over all properties?
Im sure estate agents would love it if that were the case, but it's not. Its down to demand. I received the 10% over HR value chat when I was looking to buy 2 years ago, but i managed to secure the house at HR value. I was fortunate that there were no other bids and the seller wanted a quickish sale.E31Shrew said:
We moved from Shropshire to the Borders in early 2021. We had made an offer on a place in Gairloch, about 4 hours north of Glasgow on the coast. Dodged a bullet and luckily we were outbid. We should've taken note of the signs from the vendor as they went to Spain every year from November to March.
One of our daughters suggested the North East coast, Coldingham area. Saw a couple of places there but nothing really fitted the bill so decided to look to the Borders.
We've settled in a small village called Yetholm. About 35 mins from the coast and 75 mins to Edinburgh. Its a stunning spot right at the end of the Pennine Way so welcome quite a few tourists throughout the year. Only about 1 mile in to Scotland so a real mix of Scots and English. The locals are a great bunch and we've been welcomed way beyond our dreams
The place we bought has an attached hayloft that we've converted to holiday accommodation and at the moment it runs at about 50% occupancy so brings in a few bob [ Weve both retired by the way ]
The village has a couple of pubs, butchers, village shop and garage. Kelso is the nearest town about 8 miles away.
No negatives and only wish we had moved years ago.
Off to do the NC500 tomorrow!
We've stayed in Morebattle a couple of times, it's a beautiful area where you are.One of our daughters suggested the North East coast, Coldingham area. Saw a couple of places there but nothing really fitted the bill so decided to look to the Borders.
We've settled in a small village called Yetholm. About 35 mins from the coast and 75 mins to Edinburgh. Its a stunning spot right at the end of the Pennine Way so welcome quite a few tourists throughout the year. Only about 1 mile in to Scotland so a real mix of Scots and English. The locals are a great bunch and we've been welcomed way beyond our dreams
The place we bought has an attached hayloft that we've converted to holiday accommodation and at the moment it runs at about 50% occupancy so brings in a few bob [ Weve both retired by the way ]
The village has a couple of pubs, butchers, village shop and garage. Kelso is the nearest town about 8 miles away.
No negatives and only wish we had moved years ago.
Off to do the NC500 tomorrow!
gotoPzero said:
I dont understand why there are 3 figures in scotland
You could argue that agents should have to list property for sale at HRV, but that is the sellers choice end of the day. Listing lower will increase view count and eyeballs but traffic will be less qualified. Some choose to list higher but in general agents will tell you more volume is better. Your interest in this property for instance is having an impact regardless of whether you bid.
As for the premium, this is a function of demand yes, as others notied, but it's also a function of volume. if there are no recent sales, then surveyor will conservatively underestimate the value, which is safer for him/bank. The market will find the true price in any case. so odd rare properties do 'seem' to attract higher premiums, which is a function of low supply, but if you look deeper, it's often the case that odd rare properties attract more conservative valuations also.
So on balance i prefer the system, and do expect england will follow at some point
Edited by lizardbrain on Friday 17th May 12:54
lizardbrain said:
The advantages is that it's relatively rare for buyers to get their own survey which massively cuts down on fallthroughs and post offer hijinks.
We only commissioned a specialist damp report for one part of the house where the home report noted a 3 and made specific comment about one suspended floor.Edited by lizardbrain on Friday 17th May 12:54
In my experience though there are home reports and then there are home reports, some are really quite good and others so brief and scant that they are pretty worthless.
An often forgotten part of Scotland is Moray.
We moved here 8 years ago from Central Scotland after having a holiday caravan in Hopeman for years.
Climate far better than the West of Scotland, with about 60% of Glasgow's rainfall, and far more sunny days.
Bonus, virtually no midges, in 8 years I've been forced indoors only 3 times, though ticks are an issue to be aware of.
We're 15 minutes from a 7 mile sandy beach, 15 minutes from Elgin with a decent range of shops.
An hour from the Cairngorm Ski area.
Far quieter and cleaner than Central Scotland.
Biggest downside is either finding suppliers won't deliver here, or slap on extra carriage charges.
(I was once told that the Supplier would not deliver to Scotland, 'as it's not on the Mainland).....
We moved here 8 years ago from Central Scotland after having a holiday caravan in Hopeman for years.
Climate far better than the West of Scotland, with about 60% of Glasgow's rainfall, and far more sunny days.
Bonus, virtually no midges, in 8 years I've been forced indoors only 3 times, though ticks are an issue to be aware of.
We're 15 minutes from a 7 mile sandy beach, 15 minutes from Elgin with a decent range of shops.
An hour from the Cairngorm Ski area.
Far quieter and cleaner than Central Scotland.
Biggest downside is either finding suppliers won't deliver here, or slap on extra carriage charges.
(I was once told that the Supplier would not deliver to Scotland, 'as it's not on the Mainland).....
munroman said:
An often forgotten part of Scotland is Moray.
We moved here 8 years ago from Central Scotland after having a holiday caravan in Hopeman for years.
Climate far better than the West of Scotland, with about 60% of Glasgow's rainfall, and far more sunny days.
Bonus, virtually no midges, in 8 years I've been forced indoors only 3 times, though ticks are an issue to be aware of.
We're 15 minutes from a 7 mile sandy beach, 15 minutes from Elgin with a decent range of shops.
An hour from the Cairngorm Ski area.
Far quieter and cleaner than Central Scotland.
Biggest downside is either finding suppliers won't deliver here, or slap on extra carriage charges.
(I was once told that the Supplier would not deliver to Scotland, 'as it's not on the Mainland).....
Just did a Rightmove search on everything in Morayshire. This checks out. Phenomenal value. Only ever spent a week in Forres once in my life, 40 years ago that was, and had forgotten how nice it was.We moved here 8 years ago from Central Scotland after having a holiday caravan in Hopeman for years.
Climate far better than the West of Scotland, with about 60% of Glasgow's rainfall, and far more sunny days.
Bonus, virtually no midges, in 8 years I've been forced indoors only 3 times, though ticks are an issue to be aware of.
We're 15 minutes from a 7 mile sandy beach, 15 minutes from Elgin with a decent range of shops.
An hour from the Cairngorm Ski area.
Far quieter and cleaner than Central Scotland.
Biggest downside is either finding suppliers won't deliver here, or slap on extra carriage charges.
(I was once told that the Supplier would not deliver to Scotland, 'as it's not on the Mainland).....
Thanks, I shall add the area to my retirement possibilities.
gotoPzero said:
Does it change with value or is 10% considered the same over all properties?
It depends on lots of things. That is what my solicitor recommended I offer for our house a few months ago (i.e 10% over HR). I offered 5% less and it was accepted immediately and we moved in 5 weeks later.Its such a difficult game but demand and number of notes of interest are the big things that push prices over HR value.
We bought our current pile at below valuation level, the lowest bid by a long way. House was ok but dated. We were cash buyers ready to move, as opposed to others not in the same position, we by chance bumped into the owner sailing (after viewing it and initially dismissing it as over budget) we agreed to an easy fast purchase. They had previously been through the English buyers falling through process, twice. Offer in & 4 weeks later we got the keys!
Three years later and renovations almost complete, it's been a great move, from Dorset.
Three years later and renovations almost complete, it's been a great move, from Dorset.
All great options and it’s great up here, I’d never consider anywhere else. Well, maybe Bora Bora, but nowhere else in the UK.
There’s something to be said for being a cash buyer with money ready to go so when you make your offer let them know you have money in hand, no chain, and can complete ASAP. They may go for it for the fast sale.
There’s something to be said for being a cash buyer with money ready to go so when you make your offer let them know you have money in hand, no chain, and can complete ASAP. They may go for it for the fast sale.
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