Am I obliged to allow Octopus to fit a smart meter?

[davek_964]

Many years ago, I had a similar mail / letter from whatever energy company I was using at the time. I told them that I had a week off in a few weeks, so was happy to make an appointment then.

They told me that wasn't convenient, and informed me of the date they wanted to do it.

I answered that wasn't convenient for me - and since it was them that wanted the meter changed, it was up to them to fit into my plans - not the other way around.

Never heard back about it - and that's at least 5 years ago, if not 10. I'm surprised my meter is still managing to measure.......

[DevonOhar]

I’ve had similar with Octopus. They wanted me to change to a Smart Meter. I’ve actually no problem within that and said ok. They sent someone out to change meters, but the electrician said that the change was too difficult (not enough room in electricity box) and said I would need to employ my own electrician to make room before they could change meters. I declined to do this. They still keep sending me emails asking me too book an appointment to change to a smart meter.

[_Hoppers]

James6112 said:

Problem solved?
Happy with mine.
8p kwh for 50% of our usage.
So averaging under 20p kwh

Not available to the freedom fighters

Have you got a specific tariff for the 8p/kwh? I'm having a smart meter installed by Octopus in a couple of weeks and it's not clear whether I need to sign up for a tariff to get a cheaper rate for overnight use. The only tariff I can seem to find are aimed at EV users and those with solar panels etc.

[AyBee]

DevonOhar said:

I’ve had similar with Octopus. They wanted me to change to a Smart Meter. I’ve actually no problem within that and said ok. They sent someone out to change meters, but the electrician said that the change was too difficult (not enough room in electricity box) and said I would need to employ my own electrician to make room before they could change meters. I declined to do this. They still keep sending me emails asking me too book an appointment to change to a smart meter.

Have you done the calculations to work out whether you might be better off with a smart meter and paying somebody to make room to fit one? I did this calculation for something else, but my weighted average unit rate over the last 6 months has been just over 13p/kWh, That compares to the best flat rate from my supplier of just over 27p/kWh meaning that I've saved about £330 in the last 6 months (over winter!). I'd be paying that electrician (and did) to sort my meter box out!

[SpidersWeb]

_Hoppers said:

James6112 said:

Problem solved?
Happy with mine.
8p kwh for 50% of our usage.
So averaging under 20p kwh

Not available to the freedom fighters

Have you got a specific tariff for the 8p/kwh? I'm having a smart meter installed by Octopus in a couple of weeks and it's not clear whether I need to sign up for a tariff to get a cheaper rate for overnight use. The only tariff I can seem to find are aimed at EV users and those with solar panels etc.

That will likely be Intelligent Octopus which provides a cheaper rate overnight or when the car is charging during the day whilst there is cheap electricity in the grid.

For those with no EV or solar or heat pump, then Tracker or Agile, where the tariffs follow the wholesale cost, Tracker the daily cost and Agile the half-hourly cost - however these tariffs are not subject to the Ofgem cap and have caps (iirc) of 100p/kWh for electricity and 30p/kWh for gas.

The Tracker price is relatively flat, and for electricity it has sat around 5p below the standard electricity tariff of 25p for the last month, and for gas it has sat around 2p below the standard gas tariff of 6p for that month. Over the last 18 months or so the price difference has been more significant but is now coming closer, but is still about a 20% saving on electricity and 33% on gas.

Agile is electricity only (you can have Agile electricity and Tracker gas) and is massively variable, and yesterday the prices ranged from 8p to 34p but today the prices are slightly higher at 13p to 33p, however last weekend the prices went negative and you were paid to use it.

For me Agile works, and for March and April I used 754kWh (I do have an EV, but no solar or battery) at a cost of £67.61, so an effective rate of 9p/kWh, significantly below the standard of 25p.

To achieve that 9p effective rate has meant moving consumption to times of lower cost - I am not putting the washing machine or dishwasher on in the middle of the night to get the lowest rates - and avoiding the peak time costs which tends to be 4pm to 7pm.

[_Hoppers]

SpidersWeb said:

_Hoppers said:

James6112 said:

Problem solved?
Happy with mine.
8p kwh for 50% of our usage.
So averaging under 20p kwh

Not available to the freedom fighters

Have you got a specific tariff for the 8p/kwh? I'm having a smart meter installed by Octopus in a couple of weeks and it's not clear whether I need to sign up for a tariff to get a cheaper rate for overnight use. The only tariff I can seem to find are aimed at EV users and those with solar panels etc.

That will likely be Intelligent Octopus which provides a cheaper rate overnight or when the car is charging during the day whilst there is cheap electricity in the grid.

For those with no EV or solar or heat pump, then Tracker or Agile, where the tariffs follow the wholesale cost, Tracker the daily cost and Agile the half-hourly cost - however these tariffs are not subject to the Ofgem cap and have caps (iirc) of 100p/kWh for electricity and 30p/kWh for gas.

The Tracker price is relatively flat, and for electricity it has sat around 5p below the standard electricity tariff of 25p for the last month, and for gas it has sat around 2p below the standard gas tariff of 6p for that month. Over the last 18 months or so the price difference has been more significant but is now coming closer, but is still about a 20% saving on electricity and 33% on gas.

Agile is electricity only (you can have Agile electricity and Tracker gas) and is massively variable, and yesterday the prices ranged from 8p to 34p but today the prices are slightly higher at 13p to 33p, however last weekend the prices went negative and you were paid to use it.

For me Agile works, and for March and April I used 754kWh (I do have an EV, but no solar or battery) at a cost of £67.61, so an effective rate of 9p/kWh, significantly below the standard of 25p.

To achieve that 9p effective rate has meant moving consumption to times of lower cost - I am not putting the washing machine or dishwasher on in the middle of the night to get the lowest rates - and avoiding the peak time costs which tends to be 4pm to 7pm.

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I'll look further into those options. I do recall now seeing the Agile tariff now, but at the time it seemed a bit of a risk? We only have electricity due to oil heating.

[SpidersWeb]

_Hoppers said:

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I'll look further into those options. I do recall now seeing the Agile tariff now, but at the time it seemed a bit of a risk? We only have electricity due to oil heating.

Agile is a bit of a gamble, particularly if you don't have a history of smart meter data to compare and examine when your usage takes place. However you are only 'contracted in' to the Agile tariff for a minimum of 30 days before being allowed to switch away to a different tariff so it isn't a do or die commitment.

[Shaoxter]

_Hoppers said:

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I'll look further into those options. I do recall now seeing the Agile tariff now, but at the time it seemed a bit of a risk? We only have electricity due to oil heating.

Yes but as with anything else, if you take on the risk then you can expect to be compensated for that in the form of a lower average rate overall.

I usually average 9-12p/kWh compared to the standard 25p and the only behavioural change required is running the washing machine and dishwasher outside the peak hours. It says it can go up to 100p/kWh but I've never seen anything close to that.

[_Hoppers]

Shaoxter said:

_Hoppers said:

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I'll look further into those options. I do recall now seeing the Agile tariff now, but at the time it seemed a bit of a risk? We only have electricity due to oil heating.

Yes but as with anything else, if you take on the risk then you can expect to be compensated for that in the form of a lower average rate overall.

I usually average 9-12p/kWh compared to the standard 25p and the only behavioural change required is running the washing machine and dishwasher outside the peak hours. It says it can go up to 100p/kWh but I've never seen anything close to that.

Cheers, that's reassuring. I have a fish tank with a heater (plus filter) and hoped the electric cost would be reduced for using the 'nighttime' rate just for this? I don't think the heater comes on much (if at all) during the summer though, so I'd have to wait for the cooler months to determine its max usage.

[_Hoppers]

SpidersWeb said:

_Hoppers said:

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I'll look further into those options. I do recall now seeing the Agile tariff now, but at the time it seemed a bit of a risk? We only have electricity due to oil heating.

Agile is a bit of a gamble, particularly if you don't have a history of smart meter data to compare and examine when your usage takes place. However you are only 'contracted in' to the Agile tariff for a minimum of 30 days before being allowed to switch away to a different tariff so it isn't a do or die commitment.

Again, this is reassuring, thank you.

[Actual]

_Hoppers said:

Have you got a specific tariff for the 8p/kwh? I'm having a smart meter installed by Octopus in a couple of weeks and it's not clear whether I need to sign up for a tariff to get a cheaper rate for overnight use. The only tariff I can seem to find are aimed at EV users and those with solar panels etc.

To get on the EV tariff with British Gas and the 9p per kWh night time rate I had to have an EV.

I do have a plug in hybrid which I charge using a 3 pin 13A plug which I plug in at midnight each night.

British Gas did not ask for any evidence that I have an EV.

[Griffith4ever]

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

[Rough101]

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

If your meter gets to 20 years old for a static and 10 years for an induction (disc) they can change it by statute. At that point they can no longer be sure that it’s accurate for you or them and they are not permitted to refit a traditional meter without good cause.

Schedule 7 of The Electricity Act 1989 provides the primary framework here with supporting legislation in the form of Statutory Instruments and guidance Directions as required. The key documents are:

[Griffith4ever]

Rough101 said:

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

If your meter gets to 20 years old for a static and 10 years for an induction (disc) they can change it by statute. At that point they can no longer be sure that it’s accurate for you or them and they are not permitted to refit a traditional meter without good cause.

Schedule 7 of The Electricity Act 1989 provides the primary framework here with supporting legislation in the form of Statutory Instruments and guidance Directions as required. The key documents are:

Well, when that happens it happens.

[SpidersWeb]

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

Yes of course electricity costs are not a significant burden for most people, but there are tariffs where it is cheaper.

The "Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day)" is here now for time of use tariffs as you can see from below - however, unless you use all of your electricity in the 4pm to 7pm slot then the overall cost for the day will have been lower.



And sure those who remain on meters that cannot record time of use do not suffer those peak costs, but those peak costs are built into their tariff so they pay a far higher flat tariff for most of the day than those who are charged based on the underlying wholesale price.

So feel free to carry on paying 25p/kWh when you could be paying significantly less for most of your consumption, as I am sure the shareholders at your energy company will welcome the extra money you are choosing to pay them.

[Road2Ruin]

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

Octopus Agile would save you money. Their daytime prices are usually cheap than the cap, the low demand prices sometimes give you money back or are pennies. Even just doing washing, tumble drying and dish washers at night will save a noticeable amount. I see a lot of people on the Octopus thread seeing averages of 12-13p pkwh. Of course to the powerfully built PH directors, saving £10 per month is a faff, but for real people it makes a difference.
I have an EV, so I can save more. My last bill was an average of 7.6p pkwh.

[Shaoxter]

Road2Ruin said:

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

Octopus Agile would save you money. Their daytime prices are usually cheap than the cap, the low demand prices sometimes give you money back or are pennies. Even just doing washing, tumble drying and dish washers at night will save a noticeable amount. I see a lot of people on the Octopus thread seeing averages of 12-13p pkwh. Of course to the powerfully built PH directors, saving £10 per month is a faff, but for real people it makes a difference.
I have an EV, so I can save more. My last bill was an average of 7.6p pkwh.

Leave him be, he's subsidising our cheap rates! In the same way that people who renew their insurance at the renewal price subsidise the smarter ones.

[craig1912]

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

Well said. We are on Flexible Octopus. Two of us, using washing machine at night isn’t an option, dishwasher once every 2/3 days.
Happy inputting the readings into the app once a month.
Agree unless there is a decent financial incentive they can keep their “smart” meters.

[Oldred_V8S]

FMOB said:

Smart meters do support remote cut-off, considering how useless they are with basic technology would you trust them? Just waiting for someone to hack the network and turn everyone off.

But a hacker could do that anyway further up the generating chain. Having a dumb meter will not prevent a hacker from switching off the electricity should they want to.

[dickymint]

Griffith4ever said:

Rough101 said:

Griffith4ever said:

For the vast majority of us who have NOT got an EV, cheap povernight tarrifs are mostly not available, AND, with the exception of washing machines and dishwashers, there is no way for us to use overnight energy. For a two person childless household, electricity costs are not high, and impractical to move to night time. So taking this into consideration there is little motivation to move to a smart meter when it mostly offers the energy Co something, not us, AND there are unknowns about future Peak surge pricing (which is coming as sure as night follows day).

This does not mean its a " no brainer" and, to the SM fans, regular meters are not "dumb" (love the way you are not so subtly trying to apply that to the owners of them) in the same way meters with a SIM card are not "smart". It also does not mean we are conspiracy theorists short of a roll of tin foil for holding off until the market is more fully developed.

Give ME a solid financial incentive and I will gladly switch. Without one, I will happily wait, and enjoy my monthly stroll around the building.

If your meter gets to 20 years old for a static and 10 years for an induction (disc) they can change it by statute. At that point they can no longer be sure that it’s accurate for you or them and they are not permitted to refit a traditional meter without good cause.

Schedule 7 of The Electricity Act 1989 provides the primary framework here with supporting legislation in the form of Statutory Instruments and guidance Directions as required. The key documents are:

Well, when that happens it happens.

Here's my meter which supposedly should have been replaced in 1989







It's happily chugging away on it's second go around the clock! Strange that it's taken 35 years and around 100 readings for anybody to give a toss.