Why can't other cars use Tesla's charging network?
Discussion
kambites said:
Tesla will have produced a lot of extremely expensive car park ornaments!
I wouldn't worry about it, Tesla 'chargers' are not the stalls, all they are is just a cable. Tesla added CCS cables to existing stalls with little issue.Petrol cars gave been around for 100 years and as far as I know manufacturers still put the fuel flap anywhere they like and on any side they like.
gangzoom said:
I wouldn't worry about it, Tesla 'chargers' are not the stalls, all they are is just a cable. Tesla added CCS cables to existing stalls with little issue.
True, I guess. Once the high current AC feeds are in and connected to the AC to DC converter, changing the cable can't be too hard even if the new ones need liquid cooling. gangzoom said:
Petrol cars gave been around for 100 years and as far as I know manufacturers still put the fuel flap anywhere they like and on any side they like.
Also true I guess, at least to an extent. When was the last time you saw a car with the filler cap anywhere other than on the side of the car behind the doors? It used to be quite common to have it on the back of the car and some cars had front mounted tanks and hence fillers on the front wings. kambites said:
gangzoom said:
I wouldn't worry about it, Tesla 'chargers' are not the stalls, all they are is just a cable. Tesla added CCS cables to existing stalls with little issue.
True, I guess. Once the high current AC feeds are in and connected to the AC to DC converter, changing the cable can't be too hard even if the new ones need liquid cooling. gangzoom said:
Petrol cars gave been around for 100 years and as far as I know manufacturers still put the fuel flap anywhere they like and on any side they like.
Also true I guess, at least to an extent. When was the last time you saw a car with the filler cap anywhere other than on the side of the car behind the doors? It used to be quite common to have it on the back of the car and some cars had front mounted tanks and hence fillers on the front wings. Tesla have their charge point within the light cluster as it’s a lot easier to fit in assembly.
If you have a flap in bodywork then it’s quite costly to get that flap in and also to align.
What Tesla been clever to do is build a light cluster with a charger point built in so the only have to align the light cluster to the bodywork and nothing else.
If you have a flap in bodywork then it’s quite costly to get that flap in and also to align.
What Tesla been clever to do is build a light cluster with a charger point built in so the only have to align the light cluster to the bodywork and nothing else.
skilly1 said:
Tesla have their charge point within the light cluster as it’s a lot easier to fit in assembly.
If you have a flap in bodywork then it’s quite costly to get that flap in and also to align.
What Tesla been clever to do is build a light cluster with a charger point built in so the only have to align the light cluster to the bodywork and nothing else.
to be fair to them they've only just got aligning the panels about right.If you have a flap in bodywork then it’s quite costly to get that flap in and also to align.
What Tesla been clever to do is build a light cluster with a charger point built in so the only have to align the light cluster to the bodywork and nothing else.
I think it could be argued that when Tesla built their first charging stations to fit their cars there wasn’t any other manufacturer (Nissan Leaf perhaps?) around to plug into them. Why everybody else has come up with front and centre, behind the front wheel (Audi etc) and almost vertically into the top of the bonnet with the cable scratching across the top of the wings (Honda e) I have no idea. It’s almost like it’s been deliberately obtuse. Cables would need to be several metres long to fit everything.
The cost to alter every single supercharger to fit every single EV will be considerable unless the plan is to just fit an additional type 2 socket to the superchargers which could then supply a relatively cool running 50kw to suit any EV carrying a 5m cable, leaving the existing short Tesla cables for the 250kw model 3.
Can’t see Tesla doing this for free.
The cost to alter every single supercharger to fit every single EV will be considerable unless the plan is to just fit an additional type 2 socket to the superchargers which could then supply a relatively cool running 50kw to suit any EV carrying a 5m cable, leaving the existing short Tesla cables for the 250kw model 3.
Can’t see Tesla doing this for free.
I'm perfectly happy for Tesla chargers to be Tesla only - it helps build up resentment for other EV drivers to pressure the manufacturers and authorities into establishing standardisation and far higher quality control levels, by regulation, for other charging networks.
Tesla paid a high price to get their own network and they deserve to have their reward for it. For the rest of us, it's an excellent beacon of how it should and could be if everyone else got their act together!
Tesla paid a high price to get their own network and they deserve to have their reward for it. For the rest of us, it's an excellent beacon of how it should and could be if everyone else got their act together!
The physical existence of the Tesla chargers themselves is just one advantage, the other is that a Tesla 'knows' how many stalls are available before you arrive and can pre-heat the battery before arrival. You can't shoehorn that kind of tech into any other existing EV, so Tesla users will still have an advantage
/ convenience.
I have only had my company Model 3 for just coming up to a month. I've only used a Supercharger twice, once to just 'see how they work' and the second time because we were stopping at the services anyway and there were empty bays (in hindsight, I wouldn't have bothered as I had plenty of juice and the location is 40p/Kw! - South Mimms).
They're not intended to be frequently used - you do the majority of your charging at home and the supercharger 'sees you through' if you're doing a longer journey.
I imagine 'opening up to other cars' will ultimately just be at their quiet-er sites and during off-peak times.
Considering Tesla charge their own userbase a not insignificant 'Idle Fee' if the site is busy I can't see it working out if a car is blocking an adjacent bay either.
/ convenience.
I have only had my company Model 3 for just coming up to a month. I've only used a Supercharger twice, once to just 'see how they work' and the second time because we were stopping at the services anyway and there were empty bays (in hindsight, I wouldn't have bothered as I had plenty of juice and the location is 40p/Kw! - South Mimms).
They're not intended to be frequently used - you do the majority of your charging at home and the supercharger 'sees you through' if you're doing a longer journey.
I imagine 'opening up to other cars' will ultimately just be at their quiet-er sites and during off-peak times.
Considering Tesla charge their own userbase a not insignificant 'Idle Fee' if the site is busy I can't see it working out if a car is blocking an adjacent bay either.
C.A.R. said:
The physical existence of the Tesla chargers themselves is just one advantage, the other is that a Tesla 'knows' how many stalls are available before you arrive and can pre-heat the battery before arrival. You can't shoehorn that kind of tech into any other existing EV, so Tesla users will still have an advantage
Mine already pre-heats if you set the destination as a charger, if the Tesla Network opens up the same information will easily be able to be displayed on how many free chargers there are.Not sure why you don’t think any of that is possible.
C.A.R. said:
The physical existence of the Tesla chargers themselves is just one advantage, the other is that a Tesla 'knows' how many stalls are available before you arrive and can pre-heat the battery before arrival. You can't shoehorn that kind of tech into any other existing EV, so Tesla users will still have an advantage
/ convenience.
I have only had my company Model 3 for just coming up to a month. I've only used a Supercharger twice, once to just 'see how they work' and the second time because we were stopping at the services anyway and there were empty bays (in hindsight, I wouldn't have bothered as I had plenty of juice and the location is 40p/Kw! - South Mimms).
They're not intended to be frequently used - you do the majority of your charging at home and the supercharger 'sees you through' if you're doing a longer journey.
I imagine 'opening up to other cars' will ultimately just be at their quiet-er sites and during off-peak times.
Considering Tesla charge their own userbase a not insignificant 'Idle Fee' if the site is busy I can't see it working out if a car is blocking an adjacent bay either.
It's true that most drivers hardly ever actually use a public charger, so in that sense worrying about not being able to use the supercharger network has never really bothered me. If I use any old 50kw charger once or twice a year, it's more than fast enough tbh./ convenience.
I have only had my company Model 3 for just coming up to a month. I've only used a Supercharger twice, once to just 'see how they work' and the second time because we were stopping at the services anyway and there were empty bays (in hindsight, I wouldn't have bothered as I had plenty of juice and the location is 40p/Kw! - South Mimms).
They're not intended to be frequently used - you do the majority of your charging at home and the supercharger 'sees you through' if you're doing a longer journey.
I imagine 'opening up to other cars' will ultimately just be at their quiet-er sites and during off-peak times.
Considering Tesla charge their own userbase a not insignificant 'Idle Fee' if the site is busy I can't see it working out if a car is blocking an adjacent bay either.
BUT, I'm thinking most people that start thinking about maybe getting an EV, and then start looking at Tesla EV's are attracted because of the supercharger network, which they assume they'll be using as often as they're used to using a petrol station.. the network must do a lot to encourage sales of Tesla cars.
andy43 said:
I think it could be argued that when Tesla built their first charging stations to fit their cars there wasn’t any other manufacturer (Nissan Leaf perhaps?) around to plug into them. Why everybody else has come up with front and centre, behind the front wheel (Audi etc) and almost vertically into the top of the bonnet with the cable scratching across the top of the wings (Honda e) I have no idea. It’s almost like it’s been deliberately obtuse. Cables would need to be several metres long to fit everything.
The cost to alter every single supercharger to fit every single EV will be considerable unless the plan is to just fit an additional type 2 socket to the superchargers which could then supply a relatively cool running 50kw to suit any EV carrying a 5m cable, leaving the existing short Tesla cables for the 250kw model 3.
Can’t see Tesla doing this for free.
The front is the correct place for the charge port. No need to trail the cable over or around anything, it just plugs in with the cable part away from the car where it won't damage any paintwork or be tripped over by people in adjacent spaces.The cost to alter every single supercharger to fit every single EV will be considerable unless the plan is to just fit an additional type 2 socket to the superchargers which could then supply a relatively cool running 50kw to suit any EV carrying a 5m cable, leaving the existing short Tesla cables for the 250kw model 3.
Can’t see Tesla doing this for free.
Particularly for on-street charging, side ports are just an accident waiting to happen as people try to get past them.
aestetix1 said:
The front is the correct place for the charge port. No need to trail the cable over or around anything, it just plugs in with the cable part away from the car where it won't damage any paintwork or be tripped over by people in adjacent spaces.
Particularly for on-street charging, side ports are just an accident waiting to happen as people try to get past them.
Exactly how is a front mounted port going to help with that issue?Particularly for on-street charging, side ports are just an accident waiting to happen as people try to get past them.
Still looks like a trip hazard to me, and possibly worse than for a side port?
And good luck tripping over a Tesla charger, or damaging your bodywork.
TheDeuce said:
It's true that most drivers hardly ever actually use a public charger, so in that sense worrying about not being able to use the supercharger network has never really bothered me. If I use any old 50kw charger once or twice a year, it's more than fast enough tbh.
My public charging has been circa 100 times a year - mostly on 50kW chargers and they are tedious and sloooooow on a 300+ miles in a day trip. Two hours’ charging on 50s to get to Edinburgh and back, 1.5 Aberystwyth (uni trips for daughters from Lancashire). Painfuloop north said:
TheDeuce said:
It's true that most drivers hardly ever actually use a public charger, so in that sense worrying about not being able to use the supercharger network has never really bothered me. If I use any old 50kw charger once or twice a year, it's more than fast enough tbh.
My public charging has been circa 100 times a year - mostly on 50kW chargers and they are tedious and sloooooow on a 300+ miles in a day trip. Two hours’ charging on 50s to get to Edinburgh and back, 1.5 Aberystwyth (uni trips for daughters from Lancashire). PainfulGood on you for making it work though. I was referencing the majority of drivers and most drivers very rarely exceed the range of an 80-100kwh EV in a single stint. It's so infrequent for most that whilst it would be nice to use faster chargers with ease, it's not a deal breaker.
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