Accused of careless/not stopping - what happens from here?
Discussion
kiethton said:
Not so much too much trouble but don't have the time. I work 70-80 hours a week, have a 1 year old baby, am the chair/a director for two local charities, am sorting my dad out after a break-up/assault at the hands of my brother (for which the police were useless) and am in the middle of refurbishing my own house - I've got far too much to be doing/worrying about without giving any time to a scammer/people trying to perpetuate a scam.
The shops aren't open before work, most are closed when I leave the office and my lunches are ordered in. If the police want to prosecute on a technicality they can't complain about people using a technicality when it suits.
I know that in 8 weeks this will have timed out and if they prosecute me for failure to provide information I'll win every day as I followed the instructions on the form to the letter. If they asked what I was doing 30 minutes before my reply on the form would have been different. At the end of the day it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's theirs to prove my guilt. Letting this time out also means I don't have to do anything for at least 8 weeks (helpful given the time of year) and it doesn't open up another can of worms. I can do this without lieing, why wouldn't I?
Being as gentle as I can in the circumstances, troll or thick as fThe shops aren't open before work, most are closed when I leave the office and my lunches are ordered in. If the police want to prosecute on a technicality they can't complain about people using a technicality when it suits.
I know that in 8 weeks this will have timed out and if they prosecute me for failure to provide information I'll win every day as I followed the instructions on the form to the letter. If they asked what I was doing 30 minutes before my reply on the form would have been different. At the end of the day it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's theirs to prove my guilt. Letting this time out also means I don't have to do anything for at least 8 weeks (helpful given the time of year) and it doesn't open up another can of worms. I can do this without lieing, why wouldn't I?
Edited by kiethton on Friday 3rd May 19:56
Edited by kiethton on Friday 3rd May 19:57
k?
loskie said:
yeah. No time but plenty to bicker on here.
One of these clowns who asks a question then tells everyone the answer.
Joker, you know some people can be on a phone at work, but not able to leave the desk right?One of these clowns who asks a question then tells everyone the answer.
I asked the question, some agreed, others didn't. Read the words on the form, I realised that I had completed as the form says, to the letter. They have acknowledged receipt in the time line required.
How would a failure to complete the form charge stick?
kiethton said:
Super Sonic said:
You may be invited to attend a voluntary interview.
If the diaries align... surely they'd just try and make me slip up?You know you were there, you know you nearly hit her. That may or may not have caused her to fall and become injured.
Three miles away has now turned in to 30 minutes time difference.
I don't think this is going to time out as you hope. The FtF certainly won't and does a potential leaving the scene require a NIP to be served on the rider anyway? Oh, but it was - it was you.
Stop making things worse for yourself.
No ideas for a name said:
kiethton said:
Super Sonic said:
You may be invited to attend a voluntary interview.
If the diaries align... surely they'd just try and make me slip up?You know you were there, you know you nearly hit her. That may or may not have caused her to fall and become injured.
Three miles away has now turned in to 30 minutes time difference.
I don't think this is going to time out as you hope. The FtF certainly won't and does a potential leaving the scene require a NIP to be served on the rider anyway? Oh, but it was - it was you.
Stop making things worse for yourself.
30 mins earlier when first there, 15 when leaving... the times work, don't worry.
They have 6 months to issue a summons - not read anything to the contrary
kiethton said:
No ideas for a name said:
kiethton said:
Super Sonic said:
You may be invited to attend a voluntary interview.
If the diaries align... surely they'd just try and make me slip up?You know you were there, you know you nearly hit her. That may or may not have caused her to fall and become injured.
Three miles away has now turned in to 30 minutes time difference.
I don't think this is going to time out as you hope. The FtF certainly won't and does a potential leaving the scene require a NIP to be served on the rider anyway? Oh, but it was - it was you.
Stop making things worse for yourself.
30 mins earlier when first there, 15 when leaving... the times work, don't worry.
They have 6 months to issue a summons - not read anything to the contrary
I fear this isn't going to end the way you're hoping.
It's not a "technicality" that you've been involved in a collision, it's Legislation and Case Law.
"Owing to the presence of" and you were there.
The information the police are asking for is required in law.
If your recollection of the events is true, then you have nothing to worry about by supplying the information required, because, from your account, you haven't caused the "collision", you just happened to be there.
Unless you're going to tell the police what happened, in the correct way, how can they know you weren't involved in the "collision".
What you are doing by trying to delay things and look for "technicalities" is potentially committing offences. And all for the sake of not buying a stamp.
Edited by Nibbles_bits on Saturday 4th May 01:01
Edited by Nibbles_bits on Saturday 4th May 01:03
From London Criminal Barristers -
The Form 963 - What to do?
The Police are now serving Form 963s more regularly, especially in cases involving allegations of Failing to Stop and Failing to Report. Completing it correctly is essential and a failure to do so may be a criminal offence.

What is a Form 963?
Where the Police believe that there has been a Road Traffic Collision, they will often serve a Form 963 rather than a request for driver details. If there has been an accident or damage caused, the 14 day Notice of Intended Prosecution requirement may not apply. This means that sometimes a Form 963 can be received a number of months after the alleged incident.
It is important to remember that the Police cannot prosecute for a minor motoring offence more than 6 months after the incident is alleged to have occurred.
What does the form tell me?
The form will include the alleged offences that are being considered for charge, these are all discussed on the Motoring Law section of this website which cane be accessed from the sidebar.
It will also inform you of the location, date and time of the alleged offence.
Do I have to reply?
These notices have the same effect as a Section 172 request for Driver Details. As a result, a failure to respond can lead to the imposition of 6 penalty points or a sentence to the level of the substantive offence. As such, there is a positive duty to respond to the form and to complete it to the best of your knowledge.
However, it is important to note that Section 112 (which underpins Section 172) only relates to driver details. If you read the Form 963 carefully, it makes clear that only failing to provide the identity of the driver renders you vulnerable to prosecution.
What about other information?
Once you accept that you were the driver, that is the legal requirement satisfied. However, the Police will be seeking information about how the alleged accident/collision occurred. This is an opportunity to set out why a collision was not as a result of your actions and to explain why (if indeed this is the case) the accident was not reported.
It can be very important to ensure that this document is filled out accurately and carefully. It can be used as a Prosecution exhibit if the Police choose to charge the driver. The form is not being completed under caution so often it can be possible to seek to exclude the contents of the document.
It is advisable to ensure you take legal advice when completing the form, it is similar to being interviewed at the police station (except that everything is being done in writing).
How do I return the form?
You should return the form in the manner prescribed, as with Section 172 notices the Courts have held that failing to return properly can amount to an offence.
What else can be done?
This stage is an excellent opportunity to draft representations as to why you should not be charged with a criminal offence. These can be drafted with legal assistance and often mean that the proceedings are taken no further.
This is particularly useful if there is a clear defence to any of the charges that are being investigated. It can ensure that the proceedings are taken no further.
The Form 963 - What to do?
The Police are now serving Form 963s more regularly, especially in cases involving allegations of Failing to Stop and Failing to Report. Completing it correctly is essential and a failure to do so may be a criminal offence.

What is a Form 963?
Where the Police believe that there has been a Road Traffic Collision, they will often serve a Form 963 rather than a request for driver details. If there has been an accident or damage caused, the 14 day Notice of Intended Prosecution requirement may not apply. This means that sometimes a Form 963 can be received a number of months after the alleged incident.
It is important to remember that the Police cannot prosecute for a minor motoring offence more than 6 months after the incident is alleged to have occurred.
What does the form tell me?
The form will include the alleged offences that are being considered for charge, these are all discussed on the Motoring Law section of this website which cane be accessed from the sidebar.
It will also inform you of the location, date and time of the alleged offence.
Do I have to reply?
These notices have the same effect as a Section 172 request for Driver Details. As a result, a failure to respond can lead to the imposition of 6 penalty points or a sentence to the level of the substantive offence. As such, there is a positive duty to respond to the form and to complete it to the best of your knowledge.
However, it is important to note that Section 112 (which underpins Section 172) only relates to driver details. If you read the Form 963 carefully, it makes clear that only failing to provide the identity of the driver renders you vulnerable to prosecution.
What about other information?
Once you accept that you were the driver, that is the legal requirement satisfied. However, the Police will be seeking information about how the alleged accident/collision occurred. This is an opportunity to set out why a collision was not as a result of your actions and to explain why (if indeed this is the case) the accident was not reported.
It can be very important to ensure that this document is filled out accurately and carefully. It can be used as a Prosecution exhibit if the Police choose to charge the driver. The form is not being completed under caution so often it can be possible to seek to exclude the contents of the document.
It is advisable to ensure you take legal advice when completing the form, it is similar to being interviewed at the police station (except that everything is being done in writing).
How do I return the form?
You should return the form in the manner prescribed, as with Section 172 notices the Courts have held that failing to return properly can amount to an offence.
What else can be done?
This stage is an excellent opportunity to draft representations as to why you should not be charged with a criminal offence. These can be drafted with legal assistance and often mean that the proceedings are taken no further.
This is particularly useful if there is a clear defence to any of the charges that are being investigated. It can ensure that the proceedings are taken no further.
kiethton said:
Not so much too much trouble but don't have the time. I work 70-80 hours a week, have a 1 year old baby, am the chair/a director for two local charities, am sorting my dad out after a break-up/assault at the hands of my brother (for which the police were useless) and am in the middle of refurbishing my own house - I've got far too much to be doing/worrying about without giving any time to a scammer/people trying to perpetuate a scam.
The shops aren't open before work, most are closed when I leave the office and my lunches are ordered in. If the police want to prosecute on a technicality they can't complain about people using a technicality when it suits.
I know that in 8 weeks this will have timed out and if they prosecute me for failure to provide information I'll win every day as I followed the instructions on the form to the letter. If they asked what I was doing 30 minutes before my reply on the form would have been different. At the end of the day it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's theirs to prove my guilt. Letting this time out also means I don't have to do anything for at least 8 weeks (helpful given the time of year) and it doesn't open up another can of worms. I can do this without lieing, why wouldn't I?
Enough time to fit in a couple of holidays in the space of 6 months it seems The shops aren't open before work, most are closed when I leave the office and my lunches are ordered in. If the police want to prosecute on a technicality they can't complain about people using a technicality when it suits.
I know that in 8 weeks this will have timed out and if they prosecute me for failure to provide information I'll win every day as I followed the instructions on the form to the letter. If they asked what I was doing 30 minutes before my reply on the form would have been different. At the end of the day it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's theirs to prove my guilt. Letting this time out also means I don't have to do anything for at least 8 weeks (helpful given the time of year) and it doesn't open up another can of worms. I can do this without lieing, why wouldn't I?
Edited by kiethton on Friday 3rd May 19:56
Edited by kiethton on Friday 3rd May 19:57
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
This is all about OP playing the system to force a time out and using the excuse that he hasn't got time to buy an envelope and a stamp to provide the info asked for to achieve this.
Any normal person with nothing to hide would just go out and buy a stamp and get it over with.
You could even ask your workmates if they could lend you one OP while you are slaving away at your desk for 80 hours a week. They might even lick the envelope for you as well to save a bit of time.
I sense karma just around the corner
I fear we are not going to get the final update on this thread unless op plugs a phone
I suspect there may be no legislation he has found or understood requiring op not to pick a big one and petulence may require him to go his own way 'why should I use a small one?'
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zngpz4/prison-phon...
I suspect there may be no legislation he has found or understood requiring op not to pick a big one and petulence may require him to go his own way 'why should I use a small one?'
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zngpz4/prison-phon...
Perhaps this is part of the worry -
"Very scared of having similar - ride a motorbike to work and the 10 or so cameras I pass are now 20 limits (but still set to 30 I think as tbh e change only happened a week ago, not that I'm going to test it intentionally).
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed."
"Very scared of having similar - ride a motorbike to work and the 10 or so cameras I pass are now 20 limits (but still set to 30 I think as tbh e change only happened a week ago, not that I'm going to test it intentionally).
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed."
I can’t see any way that the time being spent stubbornly avoiding this isn’t far greater than the time that would be spent just dealing with it.
Either the OP is a very busy guy and wasting all this time makes no sense or it’s a point of principle and he is sticking it to the man. Which seems unlikely to be effective, and so makes no sense.
OP, if you did nothing wrong in the first place, why make things so difficult now?
Either the OP is a very busy guy and wasting all this time makes no sense or it’s a point of principle and he is sticking it to the man. Which seems unlikely to be effective, and so makes no sense.
OP, if you did nothing wrong in the first place, why make things so difficult now?
Nibbles_bits said:
Perhaps this is part of the worry -
"Very scared of having similar - ride a motorbike to work and the 10 or so cameras I pass are now 20 limits (but still set to 30 I think as tbh e change only happened a week ago, not that I'm going to test it intentionally).
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed."
Nah! Not for an ‘advanced driver’."Very scared of having similar - ride a motorbike to work and the 10 or so cameras I pass are now 20 limits (but still set to 30 I think as tbh e change only happened a week ago, not that I'm going to test it intentionally).
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed."
Steve H said:
I can’t see any way that the time being spent stubbornly avoiding this isn’t far greater than the time that would be spent just dealing with it.
Either the OP is a very busy guy and wasting all this time makes no sense or it’s a point of principle and he is sticking it to the man. Which seems unlikely to be effective, and so makes no sense.
OP, if you did nothing wrong in the first place, why make things so difficult now?
Clearly got time for 36 holes of golf. Either the OP is a very busy guy and wasting all this time makes no sense or it’s a point of principle and he is sticking it to the man. Which seems unlikely to be effective, and so makes no sense.
OP, if you did nothing wrong in the first place, why make things so difficult now?
kiethton said:
Chris Stott said:
kiethton said:
Had 36 at Swinley Forest yesterday - what a course!
Shame my golf wasn't quite 100%
The best Surrey heathland course IMO… sublime. Shame my golf wasn't quite 100%
And the ‘school dinner’ is something else!
kiethton said:
Speak to AGT Law - wrote me a great mitigation letter.
On the fine (it'll happen) the month before make a massive pension contribution. They ask for a net income on the means form used for determining the fine. I did this and paid a fine that was ~30% of what the calculators said was likely as my net income was materially lower than normal. You'll have to pay costs and a no-victim fee.
ETA. Mine was 110 on a 70 motorway and got 6 points/£300 fine plus costs and surcharge
On the fine (it'll happen) the month before make a massive pension contribution. They ask for a net income on the means form used for determining the fine. I did this and paid a fine that was ~30% of what the calculators said was likely as my net income was materially lower than normal. You'll have to pay costs and a no-victim fee.
ETA. Mine was 110 on a 70 motorway and got 6 points/£300 fine plus costs and surcharge
Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 10th April 19:46
In my view, if someone falls over as a result of you riding towards them, that's an event, an 'accident' you're involved with, even if your vehicle didn't make contact. 'collision'? Maybe that's them making contact with the ground.
Doesn't mean it's necesarily the OP's fault, but he could have been going too fast for the circumstances, or not observant enough.
Equally it could be entiry the fault of the other party.
Having stopped and made his details available, how long should he be expected to hang around?
Despite all the noise about giving cyclists a lot of space, many motorists seem very incautiious about getting close to pedestrians.
And many pedestrians seem oblivious to cars let alone not considering the bikes may be filtering or whatever.
Doesn't mean it's necesarily the OP's fault, but he could have been going too fast for the circumstances, or not observant enough.
Equally it could be entiry the fault of the other party.
Having stopped and made his details available, how long should he be expected to hang around?
Despite all the noise about giving cyclists a lot of space, many motorists seem very incautiious about getting close to pedestrians.
And many pedestrians seem oblivious to cars let alone not considering the bikes may be filtering or whatever.
Wow so I can't have a holiday? Or go on work-related events? I can't complain about stupid speed limits either... my clean license shows my observations are good!
I've already said that I'll be writing a letter this weekend - along lines of "I returned the form, signed and completed on line with instructions given on the same"
End of the day, if they want something from me, or for me to do anything they'll have to fit around my diary/existing commitments - in this circumstance I'll not be putting myself out. Owing to past experience I've got little respect for the police (COVID, most interactions etc) - when they do something to earn it (unlikely) my attitude may change.
This was my last motoring related interaction - 45 minutes of robust discussion at the roadside followed before the little hitler backed off
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM?si=Q--zG0EAJOtpmNma
I've already said that I'll be writing a letter this weekend - along lines of "I returned the form, signed and completed on line with instructions given on the same"
End of the day, if they want something from me, or for me to do anything they'll have to fit around my diary/existing commitments - in this circumstance I'll not be putting myself out. Owing to past experience I've got little respect for the police (COVID, most interactions etc) - when they do something to earn it (unlikely) my attitude may change.
This was my last motoring related interaction - 45 minutes of robust discussion at the roadside followed before the little hitler backed off
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM?si=Q--zG0EAJOtpmNma
Edited by kiethton on Saturday 4th May 13:27
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