Accused of careless/not stopping - what happens from here?
Discussion
XR said:
Was it the lady who fell that made a note of your reg number or were there other witnesses, possibly dascams etc
Don't think so, although another random woman of same age/demographic (not sure if related or what) came over afterwards (not a witness to the fall) and took a photo - I asked her what she was doing at the time - was the first I heard of the accusation. I literally laughed and said that I'd only stopped to help her up and carried on leaving. The biggest issue for me is that as a posh sounding white bloke I'm a rather soft target in that locale so the risk of fake witnesses is real, hence my anxiety.
kiethton said:
Received a letter though the post yesterday (form 963) requesting details of the rider of my motorbike re. Fail to stop and careless driving.
I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
I stopped and called an ambulance as she'd cut her lip. When the ambiance said they'd be at least 45 mins I carried on to work.
Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section - or saying where I was at the time given (likely about 3 miles down the road on my way to work as the time is after I'd left).
I know I have to fill in the form else face 6 points - I can't fill in the first bit as nothing happened and I'd otherwise be implicating myself so leaning toward the second, as I was 3 miles away (which isn't untrue) at the time given.
Issue is what happens from here. Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?
If there was a collision surely there would be damage to your bike or you.... I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
I stopped and called an ambulance as she'd cut her lip. When the ambiance said they'd be at least 45 mins I carried on to work.
Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section - or saying where I was at the time given (likely about 3 miles down the road on my way to work as the time is after I'd left).
I know I have to fill in the form else face 6 points - I can't fill in the first bit as nothing happened and I'd otherwise be implicating myself so leaning toward the second, as I was 3 miles away (which isn't untrue) at the time given.
Issue is what happens from here. Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?
You would have likely have been knocked off if you hit a person let's be honest.
I'd be getting some legal advice from a specialist bike solicitor before completing any forms, sorrymate.com may be able to help but they may only deal in SMIDSY type cases.
kiethton said:
I was in a row of decently-spaced free flowing traffic. The stopped bus was oncoming, the vehicle immediately behind me was another bus. There was a pedestrian crossing 50 yards away (in either direction). I saw the shadow waiting for the van in front, next thing I know she's there in front of me, falling over.
I avoided the collision (still not sure how, thank god this bike has ABS). The issue is one of her own making.
Admire your bold position I avoided the collision (still not sure how, thank god this bike has ABS). The issue is one of her own making.
The police may choose not to agree
Many many years ago, I had a similar incident. Was also on a motorcycle, and a girl ran out from behind a parked bus.
I missed her, but in doing so I did come off the bike. I think there was fairly minor damage to the bike as it slid down the road (no fairing etc), and it damaged my jacket.
I can't remember how I got her details, but I remember telling them that they should be paying for my repairs. They sent me a cheque a week or two later - for £100 if I remember correctly - "without prejudice".
Can't imagine that happening today somehow!
I missed her, but in doing so I did come off the bike. I think there was fairly minor damage to the bike as it slid down the road (no fairing etc), and it damaged my jacket.
I can't remember how I got her details, but I remember telling them that they should be paying for my repairs. They sent me a cheque a week or two later - for £100 if I remember correctly - "without prejudice".
Can't imagine that happening today somehow!
Freakuk said:
If there was a collision surely there would be damage to your bike or you....
You would have likely have been knocked off if you hit a person let's be honest.
I'd be getting some legal advice from a specialist bike solicitor before completing any forms, sorrymate.com may be able to help but they may only deal in SMIDSY type cases.
Doesn't have to be contact for there to have been a RTC. You would have likely have been knocked off if you hit a person let's be honest.
I'd be getting some legal advice from a specialist bike solicitor before completing any forms, sorrymate.com may be able to help but they may only deal in SMIDSY type cases.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
Owing to the presence of a vehicle...
If she said she ran because she didn't see you and tripped over, then that would be a RTC under the above.
My mum had similar with a moped rider. They pulled out of a side road in front of her, panicked, grabbed a load of front brake in the wet and fell off. Mum stopped to make sure he was OK. He said it was all his fault etc.
Few weeks later she gets a NIP for careless/fail to stop/fail to report. And her insurance company were informed.
Police took no action (wasn't interviewed). And insurance company didn't pay out.
Technically she didn't comply with section 170 as she didn't give her VRM, address or insurance details. She believed that because she didn't hit anyone she didn't need to.
LosingGrip said:
Freakuk said:
If there was a collision surely there would be damage to your bike or you....
You would have likely have been knocked off if you hit a person let's be honest.
I'd be getting some legal advice from a specialist bike solicitor before completing any forms, sorrymate.com may be able to help but they may only deal in SMIDSY type cases.
Doesn't have to be contact for there to have been a RTC. You would have likely have been knocked off if you hit a person let's be honest.
I'd be getting some legal advice from a specialist bike solicitor before completing any forms, sorrymate.com may be able to help but they may only deal in SMIDSY type cases.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/secti...
Owing to the presence of a vehicle...
If she said she ran because she didn't see you and tripped over, then that would be a RTC under the above.
My mum had similar with a moped rider. They pulled out of a side road in front of her, panicked, grabbed a load of front brake in the wet and fell off. Mum stopped to make sure he was OK. He said it was all his fault etc.
Few weeks later she gets a NIP for careless/fail to stop/fail to report. And her insurance company were informed.
Police took no action (wasn't interviewed). And insurance company didn't pay out.
Technically she didn't comply with section 170 as she didn't give her VRM, address or insurance details. She believed that because she didn't hit anyone she didn't need to.
Went through a similar experience (although zero injuries at all) -> https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Chris
Chris
youngsyr said:
I'd just fill in the form with exactly what it asked for and nothing more, what else can you do?
It seems like they are asking for the details of the driver involved in the collision, but as the OP says - there was no collision. He can't therefore fill in what they are asking for.bigothunter said:
In light of this relatively new Hierarchy of Road Users (pedestrians are the most vulnerable), getting legal advice could be a wise move.
Agee, but the new hierachy for pedestrians doesnt allow them to just rush out into the road, but yes seek advice, she may have some slime ball on her side.kiethton said:
I was in a row of decently-spaced free flowing traffic. The stopped bus was oncoming, the vehicle immediately behind me was another bus. There was a pedestrian crossing 50 yards away (in either direction). I saw the shadow waiting for the van in front, next thing I know she's there in front of me, falling over.
I avoided the collision (still not sure how, thank god this bike has ABS). The issue is one of her own making.
It may be worth checking with the bus company to see if their buses are fitted with cameras as there may be video footage of the incident which the Police could view if necessary to establish which party, if any, is at fault.I avoided the collision (still not sure how, thank god this bike has ABS). The issue is one of her own making.
Vipers said:
Agee, but the new hierachy for pedestrians doesnt allow them to just rush out into the road, but yes seek advice, she may have some slime ball on her side.
Motorcyclist has duty of care for those of greater hierarchy (ie more vulnerability). Naturally he takes the onus of responsibility unless proven otherwise.GasEngineer said:
youngsyr said:
I'd just fill in the form with exactly what it asked for and nothing more, what else can you do?
It seems like they are asking for the details of the driver involved in the collision, but as the OP says - there was no collision. He can't therefore fill in what they are asking for.iansp said:
It may be worth checking with the bus company to see if their buses are fitted with cameras as there may be video footage of the incident which the Police could view if necessary to establish which party, if any, is at fault.
Was just about to post same. Almost certain that bus behind you will have dash cam.Doubt very much you'll get any joy with the bus company but the police will. I'd only mention it to the police if I were very confident the footage would show my complete innocence though.
As said above, there was no contact and as far as you're concerned a woman fell over in front of you crossing the road and you stopped to assist. Once you knew an ambulance was on it's way you carried on with your journey. There was no heavy braking, no use of ABS. You were in complete control at all times That's it.
kiethton said:
Received a letter though the post yesterday (form 963) requesting details of the rider of my motorbike re. Fail to stop and careless driving.
I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
I stopped and called an ambulance as she'd cut her lip. When the ambiance said they'd be at least 45 mins I carried on to work.
Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section - or saying where I was at the time given (likely about 3 miles down the road on my way to work as the time is after I'd left).
I know I have to fill in the form else face 6 points - I can't fill in the first bit as nothing happened and I'd otherwise be implicating myself so leaning toward the second, as I was 3 miles away (which isn't untrue) at the time given.
Issue is what happens from here. Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?
In circumstances such as the one you have described, it is crucial to approach the situation with caution and to ensure that your response to the authorities is both accurate and legally sound. Given the severity of the allegations and the potential consequences, it would be advisable to:I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
I stopped and called an ambulance as she'd cut her lip. When the ambiance said they'd be at least 45 mins I carried on to work.
Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section - or saying where I was at the time given (likely about 3 miles down the road on my way to work as the time is after I'd left).
I know I have to fill in the form else face 6 points - I can't fill in the first bit as nothing happened and I'd otherwise be implicating myself so leaning toward the second, as I was 3 miles away (which isn't untrue) at the time given.
Issue is what happens from here. Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?
A) Contact a solicitor who specialises in road traffic law immediately.
B) Gather and document all evidence that may support your account of the incident.
C) When responding to Form 963, follow the guidance of your solicitor closely. If the form does not accurately cater to the specifics of your incident (e.g., because there was no collision with another vehicle), your solicitor can advise on the best way to convey this information. They may suggest including a detailed account of the incident in your own words, clarifying that there was no collision but rather an incident where you acted to prevent harm.
D) Do not contact directly the other party involved in the incident or attempt to handle the situation without legal representation.
E) Be prepared for all possible outcomes, including the case being taken further (e.g., criminal charges or points on your licence).
Good luck!
bigothunter said:
Vipers said:
Agee, but the new hierachy for pedestrians doesnt allow them to just rush out into the road, but yes seek advice, she may have some slime ball on her side.
Motorcyclist has duty of care for those of greater hierarchy (ie more vulnerability). Naturally he takes the onus of responsibility unless proven otherwise.Sadly many dont give a toss, I commented on a local incident, I was bombarded by comments, like "Pedestrians always have the right of way", to which I said "Well if they want to jump out in front of a bus, no point moaning I HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY, when you are underneath it".
But not to clog up this interesting thread, nuff said from my end.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff