Which Model Cooper S
Discussion
these gen1's
this one I have is for sale, 56,000 miles
there are potential problems for all generation versions, many of them past maintenance related (or lack of it)
this one came to me 3yrs ago for a new clutch, rear main oil seal, timing cover seals, sump gasket, front suspension top mounts and lower arm rear bushes and outer ball joints, rear suspension trailing arm front bushes, full alignment, insp2 service, charger oil change, and had had other stuff, tyres were done after that, rear pads and discs, exhaust was changed just prior iirc
the earlier car is a manageable thing as a DIY prospect more than any other, which evolved engine wise and electronically into significantly more complex cars, nice as they are, they will, and do, cost more to live with, there is more to fail, the later cars with fewer stories have it all to show later, and it won't ever be cheaper to deal with
the supercharged S is always going to be a cult car, sure it costs a bit to tax and is a bit fuel heavy but standard or tweaked they are engaging things and more Mini than any other MINI, imo.
this one I have is for sale, 56,000 miles
there are potential problems for all generation versions, many of them past maintenance related (or lack of it)
this one came to me 3yrs ago for a new clutch, rear main oil seal, timing cover seals, sump gasket, front suspension top mounts and lower arm rear bushes and outer ball joints, rear suspension trailing arm front bushes, full alignment, insp2 service, charger oil change, and had had other stuff, tyres were done after that, rear pads and discs, exhaust was changed just prior iirc
the earlier car is a manageable thing as a DIY prospect more than any other, which evolved engine wise and electronically into significantly more complex cars, nice as they are, they will, and do, cost more to live with, there is more to fail, the later cars with fewer stories have it all to show later, and it won't ever be cheaper to deal with
the supercharged S is always going to be a cult car, sure it costs a bit to tax and is a bit fuel heavy but standard or tweaked they are engaging things and more Mini than any other MINI, imo.
I had a 2017 F56 Cooper S for 3.5 years and I really enjoyed it. It was a very fun car I thought. However apart from a 2008 Cooper d that I had as a loan car once, I don't have any experience with the 2 earlier generations though.
I believe that the earlier generations are more fun from what I read, but also more problematic to own/run though.
I believe that the earlier generations are more fun from what I read, but also more problematic to own/run though.
cerb4.5lee said:
I had a 2017 F56 Cooper S for 3.5 years and I really enjoyed it. It was a very fun car I thought. However apart from a 2008 Cooper d that I had as a loan car once, I don't have any experience with the 2 earlier generations though.
I believe that the earlier generations are more fun from what I read, but also more problematic to own/run though.
I had the R53 Cooper S with a reduced pulley and to be fair it didn't cause me many issues but I think I was quite lucky as I got one that had already had a lot of love lavished upon it. Others seemingly were not so lucky.I believe that the earlier generations are more fun from what I read, but also more problematic to own/run though.
As for being more fun, you could maybe make an argument for that I guess, it's certainly a lot more raw and the supercharger did give a nice whine, but for me I'd have the F56 over it personally. It's just as much fun I think, but does offer more refinement, but, depending on what you want the car for, I think it's all the better for it.
The one I wouldn't touch personally is the R56, which is a shame in a way as it was a good looking car and was definitely a step up in performance but the engine was not a particularly reliable one by all accounts and is plagued with issues. If you had to, then make sure it's the later N18 engine, but even then, I probably wouldn't personally.
many will like the gen3, it's a totally different car built on a 1 series floor and has far fewer stories of course, it doesn't mean they're not out there, they're just as susceptible to oil usage and timing chain issues now, low oil, the chain tensioner relaxes, chain gets lash, guide breaks, chain gets more lash, chain jumps, yet they are nice to use, easy, lazy, cosy
many thousands early on had engine repairs in and out of warranty including new engines
they are cheaper to have on the road, they can be a nice environment especially with good spec if you can find them with the right bits
I've had a 17 JCW auto early on and more recently a 15 Cooper with nice interior spec, both nice enough cars and I'd have another if right for me but they are not the same drive as the older ones I still have
the best without doubt for a drivers car, although showing some age in terms of comparative comfort I suppose is the gen1, but the gen2 S or notably JCW can be nice, I often jump in my R58 JCW for a fairly effortless drive that is still engaging but not as intoxicating as the 1st car
they're all good, just look after them with prevention in mind and they should serve well I think
many thousands early on had engine repairs in and out of warranty including new engines
they are cheaper to have on the road, they can be a nice environment especially with good spec if you can find them with the right bits
I've had a 17 JCW auto early on and more recently a 15 Cooper with nice interior spec, both nice enough cars and I'd have another if right for me but they are not the same drive as the older ones I still have
the best without doubt for a drivers car, although showing some age in terms of comparative comfort I suppose is the gen1, but the gen2 S or notably JCW can be nice, I often jump in my R58 JCW for a fairly effortless drive that is still engaging but not as intoxicating as the 1st car
they're all good, just look after them with prevention in mind and they should serve well I think
R53 is an old car now, buy a lousy one cheap and you'll have a mountain of problems to get on top of. A good one on the other hand, well serviced and with replaced parts should be decent. The engines are strong, gearboxes less so, but the maintenance from a garage is relatively cheap and some stuff is surprisingly DIY.
I've driven an R56 and F56 also, both were great, but not as direct and traditionally fun as the R53. I know the R56 had engine issues, and I know little about the F56.
I owned a bad example of an R53 and was glad to be rid of it, I'll always keep an eye out for a nice one though, in R52 convertible spec ideally.
I've driven an R56 and F56 also, both were great, but not as direct and traditionally fun as the R53. I know the R56 had engine issues, and I know little about the F56.
I owned a bad example of an R53 and was glad to be rid of it, I'll always keep an eye out for a nice one though, in R52 convertible spec ideally.
CarsOrBikes said:
many will like the gen3, it's a totally different car built on a 1 series floor and has far fewer stories of course, it doesn't mean they're not out there, they're just as susceptible to oil usage and timing chain issues now, low oil, the chain tensioner relaxes, chain gets lash, guide breaks, chain gets more lash, chain jumps, yet they are nice to use, easy, lazy, cosy
many thousands early on had engine repairs in and out of warranty including new engines
they are cheaper to have on the road, they can be a nice environment especially with good spec if you can find them with the right bits
I've had a 17 JCW auto early on and more recently a 15 Cooper with nice interior spec, both nice enough cars and I'd have another if right for me but they are not the same drive as the older ones I still have
the best without doubt for a drivers car, although showing some age in terms of comparative comfort I suppose is the gen1, but the gen2 S or notably JCW can be nice, I often jump in my R58 JCW for a fairly effortless drive that is still engaging but not as intoxicating as the 1st car
they're all good, just look after them with prevention in mind and they should serve well I think
The F series hatch and convertible uses the UKL1 platform. It's the clubman and countryman that uses the same larger UKL2 platform as the 1 series. many thousands early on had engine repairs in and out of warranty including new engines
they are cheaper to have on the road, they can be a nice environment especially with good spec if you can find them with the right bits
I've had a 17 JCW auto early on and more recently a 15 Cooper with nice interior spec, both nice enough cars and I'd have another if right for me but they are not the same drive as the older ones I still have
the best without doubt for a drivers car, although showing some age in terms of comparative comfort I suppose is the gen1, but the gen2 S or notably JCW can be nice, I often jump in my R58 JCW for a fairly effortless drive that is still engaging but not as intoxicating as the 1st car
they're all good, just look after them with prevention in mind and they should serve well I think
CarsOrBikes said:
many will like the gen3, it's a totally different car built on a 1 series floor and has far fewer stories of course, it doesn't mean they're not out there, they're just as susceptible to oil usage and timing chain issues now, low oil, the chain tensioner relaxes, chain gets lash, guide breaks, chain gets more lash, chain jumps, yet they are nice to use, easy, lazy, cosy
Granted I only did 19k miles over 3.5 years in my F56 Cooper S with the B58 2.0 engine, but that never used a drop of oil and it just stayed on the max mark all the time(my 2018 F82 M4 doesn't use a drop of oil either and also stays on the max mark between the 18k miles/2 year oil changes too). Mine was a 2017 model Mini so I presume that BMW made some changes to it so stop the oil usage then? The Merc GLE400d we have never makes it to the 15k miles/1 year oil change period without needing 1 litre of oil adding though, and that is a 2022 model car for example. It always fascinates me how different cars are when it comes to oil usage for sure. I thought the M4 would use a fair bit of oil in fairness, because I do drive that at very high speed when I get the chance for example. But it just doesn't use any though.
Pebbles167 said:
R53 is an old car now, buy a lousy one cheap and you'll have a mountain of problems to get on top of. A good one on the other hand, well serviced and with replaced parts should be decent. The engines are strong, gearboxes less so, but the maintenance from a garage is relatively cheap and some stuff is surprisingly DIY.
I've driven an R56 and F56 also, both were great, but not as direct and traditionally fun as the R53. I know the R56 had engine issues, and I know little about the F56.
I owned a bad example of an R53 and was glad to be rid of it, I'll always keep an eye out for a nice one though, in R52 convertible spec ideally.
This only really applies to the 5-speed midland boxes and they were not on the Cooper S.I've driven an R56 and F56 also, both were great, but not as direct and traditionally fun as the R53. I know the R56 had engine issues, and I know little about the F56.
I owned a bad example of an R53 and was glad to be rid of it, I'll always keep an eye out for a nice one though, in R52 convertible spec ideally.
My R53 is just about to tick over 100k. To get it there, I've had to pretty much rebuild it - it was neglected when I got it on 84k. In my ownership I've done new valve stem oil seals, piston rings, big end bearings, clutch, flywheel, brakes, suspension, myriad other jobs. I feel like I know these cars quite well!
I'd say the gen 1 Mini is a bit of a dichotomy by now. On the one hand, they have pretty unburstable engines, far more resilient than the R56 Peugeot engined cars but on the other, they are all leggy by now. Buying very carefully on condition is key imo. They're modern enough that they don't really rot other than around the rear llghts & tail gate handle, related to specific design flaws and they're a hoot to drive, go kart handling, unrefined, raw - pretty much the original Mini experience updated. The interiors rattle but still look reasonably contemporary, especially on the chrome line cars & it's perfectly possible to have one with heated seats, air, heated screen, cruise, DAB, Bluetooth with an aftermarket head unit and so on.
The red flag on these as noted above is avoid the Midland gearbox cars. The Getrag 6 speed is a must on these.
ETA: COB, I'll need to do a wheel bearing soon, not sure yet whether it's back or front but I can definitely hear it - any recommendations on a decent brand?
I'd say the gen 1 Mini is a bit of a dichotomy by now. On the one hand, they have pretty unburstable engines, far more resilient than the R56 Peugeot engined cars but on the other, they are all leggy by now. Buying very carefully on condition is key imo. They're modern enough that they don't really rot other than around the rear llghts & tail gate handle, related to specific design flaws and they're a hoot to drive, go kart handling, unrefined, raw - pretty much the original Mini experience updated. The interiors rattle but still look reasonably contemporary, especially on the chrome line cars & it's perfectly possible to have one with heated seats, air, heated screen, cruise, DAB, Bluetooth with an aftermarket head unit and so on.
The red flag on these as noted above is avoid the Midland gearbox cars. The Getrag 6 speed is a must on these.
ETA: COB, I'll need to do a wheel bearing soon, not sure yet whether it's back or front but I can definitely hear it - any recommendations on a decent brand?
Edited by President Merkin on Wednesday 1st November 08:34
cerb4.5lee said:
CarsOrBikes said:
many will like the gen3, it's a totally different car built on a 1 series floor and has far fewer stories of course, it doesn't mean they're not out there, they're just as susceptible to oil usage and timing chain issues now, low oil, the chain tensioner relaxes, chain gets lash, guide breaks, chain gets more lash, chain jumps, yet they are nice to use, easy, lazy, cosy
Granted I only did 19k miles over 3.5 years in my F56 Cooper S with the B58 2.0 engine, but that never used a drop of oil and it just stayed on the max mark all the time(my 2018 F82 M4 doesn't use a drop of oil either and also stays on the max mark between the 18k miles/2 year oil changes too). Mine was a 2017 model Mini so I presume that BMW made some changes to it so stop the oil usage then? The Merc GLE400d we have never makes it to the 15k miles/1 year oil change period without needing 1 litre of oil adding though, and that is a 2022 model car for example. It always fascinates me how different cars are when it comes to oil usage for sure. I thought the M4 would use a fair bit of oil in fairness, because I do drive that at very high speed when I get the chance for example. But it just doesn't use any though.
TameRacingDriver said:
Go for the F generation of mini IMO, which is 2015 onwards. These are the ones with the 2.0 B48 engine and they have very few deal breaking issues, which is why I went for this generation myself, albeit in the JCW spec.
What about the 1.5 engine in the F gen series ? Is that as reliable ?Spy said:
What about the 1.5 engine in the F gen series ? Is that as reliable ?
Not too sure mate, I've not really been in the market for that car and the thread references the S which is the 2.0 car in this case. That said the Mrs has taken a passing interest in getting a 1.5 cooper and from my admittedly very limited research, I'm not sure they have any major issues either, but you would really have to do your own homework on that as I can't really say for sure.TameRacingDriver said:
Spy said:
What about the 1.5 engine in the F gen series ? Is that as reliable ?
Not too sure mate, I've not really been in the market for that car and the thread references the S which is the 2.0 car in this case. That said the Mrs has taken a passing interest in getting a 1.5 cooper and from my admittedly very limited research, I'm not sure they have any major issues either, but you would really have to do your own homework on that as I can't really say for sure.However I don't have ownership experience of either the B38 or the B58 though, just the B48 engine. I have driven cars with both those engines in though, the Mini Clubman with the 1.5 B38, and the X5 45e with the 3.0 B58. I think they are all good engines overall from what I can gather.
Having thought about it a little more, as this is a second/third car, I don't want to spend £12k+ on a 3rd gen car.
Sounds like the second gen cars with the Renault engines are lots of trouble, a first gen, R52 convertible, is a slightly safer bet.
Am I Crazy ?
If I go for one of the last of the first gen cars (2007/08), what should I be looking out for on an R52 Cooper S convertible apart from the obvious of all electrics working and no smoking from a cold engine ?
Sounds like the second gen cars with the Renault engines are lots of trouble, a first gen, R52 convertible, is a slightly safer bet.
Am I Crazy ?
If I go for one of the last of the first gen cars (2007/08), what should I be looking out for on an R52 Cooper S convertible apart from the obvious of all electrics working and no smoking from a cold engine ?
Edited by Spy on Thursday 2nd November 15:39
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