Accused of careless/not stopping - what happens from here?
Discussion
bigothunter said:
Vulnerable road user (pedestrian) sustained minor injuries (inc cut lip). Perhaps I'm just pessimistic, but the outcome of this case will be interesting.
Off-topic but related. After digging around, just discovered this new rule:
Cars indicating to turn left or right must give way to cyclists coming from behind and going straight on
Didn't realise that before and could have been caught out. Thanks OP for the inspiration
Does this mean you have to give way to a cyclist coming down your near side as you sit waiting to turn left?Off-topic but related. After digging around, just discovered this new rule:
Cars indicating to turn left or right must give way to cyclists coming from behind and going straight on
Didn't realise that before and could have been caught out. Thanks OP for the inspiration
Or a motorbike, or a horse?
Or a jogger on the road?
And then the same turning right and them passing on the offside for giggles?
Is this to stop push bikers having to slow down/stop?
It seems cretinous and dangerous to have this as a rule.
Ie, imagine coming to a left hand turn junction, you stop for a bike coming down your inside to aid their progress, a car coming from ahead and turning right assumes you’re letting them go first, and turns across you, struggling to be able to see the push biker behind your car… and then they cut the cyclist up.
How is that structurally logic to allow such contradictory flow logics to operate?
Maybe on a choreographed train junction or with an ‘air traffic control’ type overview… but on the roads with each driver/user only having their own view to guide them?
said:
Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
kiethton said:
And this is the point - she did not fall due to my presence
Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
I think this topic has been weaving through this thread from the beginning, but I really feel I need to ask this question.Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
OP - how do you KNOW that she did not fall due to your presence? I very much get that you THINK that she did not fall due to your presence, but how do you actually KNOW that she didn't?
That appears to be the gap in your comprehension of what's going on. What you THINK is very different from what you KNOW.
Nibbles_bits said:
kiethton said:
martinbiz said:
kiethton said:
Wow so I can't have a holiday? Or go on work-related events? I can't complain about stupid speed limits either... my clean license shows my observations are good!
I've already said that I'll be writing a letter this weekend - along lines of "I returned the form, signed and completed on line with instructions given on the same"
End of the day, if they want something from me, or for me to do anything they'll have to fit around my diary/existing commitments - in this circumstance I'll not be putting myself out. Owing to past experience I've got little respect for the police (COVID, most interactions etc) - when they do something to earn it (unlikely) my attitude may change.
This was my last motoring related interaction - 45 minutes of robust discussion at the roadside followed before the little hitler backed off
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM?si=Q--zG0EAJOtpmNma
The fact you felt the need to upload that to YT and have comments turned off tells me all I need to knowI've already said that I'll be writing a letter this weekend - along lines of "I returned the form, signed and completed on line with instructions given on the same"
End of the day, if they want something from me, or for me to do anything they'll have to fit around my diary/existing commitments - in this circumstance I'll not be putting myself out. Owing to past experience I've got little respect for the police (COVID, most interactions etc) - when they do something to earn it (unlikely) my attitude may change.
This was my last motoring related interaction - 45 minutes of robust discussion at the roadside followed before the little hitler backed off
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM?si=Q--zG0EAJOtpmNma
Edited by kiethton on Saturday 4th May 13:27
This was only updated to discuss within an AD group of which I'm a member. The appraisal - literally nothing wrong with the overtake, textbook, yet I get pulled for it. I don't know what your problem with it is tbh.
kiethton said:
.
I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
You state that she was near invisible to you until she was right in front of you, but she presumably could see your headlights coming towards her. I am guessing from the way you describe the incident that it was you approaching her that caused her to react to try avoid you, thinking you might hit her, and in doing so she fell onto her face.I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
Although you took action to avoid hitting her, your presence resulted in her falling and injuring herself.
Surely it is your interest to get this sorted asap and not give the police the feeling that you are trying to hide something.
If it is as you say then you should have nothing to worry about, Using delaying tactics just because you hold a grudge against the police from previous experiences does you no favours.
omniflow said:
kiethton said:
And this is the point - she did not fall due to my presence
Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
I think this topic has been weaving through this thread from the beginning, but I really feel I need to ask this question.Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
OP - how do you KNOW that she did not fall due to your presence? I very much get that you THINK that she did not fall due to your presence, but how do you actually KNOW that she didn't?
That appears to be the gap in your comprehension of what's going on. What you THINK is very different from what you KNOW.
Why should I suffer for the stupidity of another?
Monkeylegend said:
kiethton said:
.
I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
You state that she was near invisible to you until she was right in front of you, but she presumably could see your headlights coming towards her. I am guessing from the way you describe the incident that it was you approaching her that caused her to react to try avoid you, thinking you might hit her, and in doing so she fell onto her face.I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.
Although you took action to avoid hitting her, your presence resulted in her falling and injuring herself.
Surely it is your interest to get this sorted asap and not give the police the feeling that you are trying to hide something.
If it is as you say then you should have nothing to worry about, Using delaying tactics just because you hold a grudge against the police from previous experiences does you no favours.
Keithton - how far in front of you was the pedestrian when she emerged from behind the bus?
Been following this one from the start, and it is PH at its absolute finest! A man taking the time to endlessly dig himself a bigger and bigger hole while all around him try and pull him out. I don't think its a wind-up. I don't think it's going to end well. Works 80 hours a week, chair of two charities, young child, motorbike and car, advanced motorist (FFS), yet can't understand the simplest way the world works. Obviously on the spectrum in some way, but I suspect the Woke world we live in will take that as offensive comment. Not meant as one.
Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
kiethton said:
And this is the point - she did not fall due to my presence
Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
Yes, she probably did all of that, nobody is disputing that, she clearly stupidly chose to run out into the road from behind a bus and in front of you when she should have checked the road was clear first. But she didn't look fist did she.Her own desire to run across the road, in a bus oil/coolant drop spot, freezing wet road conditions and likely diabetes/osteoparosis/intoxication are more than capable of doing that without my presence. I avoided the incident.
There was a bus behind me the one she was likely running across the road for behind me and another that she came out, falling, from behind - to the same token they're also responsible.
I'm prepared to accept that she definitely did all of that and she was stupid to do so, and then she suddenly saw you were there and she reacted to the sudden shock of seeing you, and she fell to the ground. She fell because she stupidly ran out, but she also fell because you were there and she thought she was going to get run over by you. She maybe caused those events to happen, but it's still being classed as a Road Traffic Collision because of one element from the above..............your presence.
I seriously cant believe that you are an advance driver and yet you cant fathom this one out.
The only leeway I can give you is if she was quite some distance from you when she suddenly saw you and fell, to the point where you can say that your distance from her wouldn't be classed as being present. But even then, the police are investigating it as a possible RTC. Guilt hasn't been proven or disproven yet, but that's where we (you) are.
Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 4th May 19:37
R6tty said:
Been following this one from the start, and it is PH at its absolute finest! A man taking the time to endlessly dig himself a bigger and bigger hole while all around him try and pull him out. I don't think its a wind-up. I don't think it's going to end well. Works 80 hours a week, chair of two charities, young child, motorbike and car, advanced motorist (FFS), yet can't understand the simplest way the world works. Obviously on the spectrum in some way, but I suspect the Woke world we live in will take that as offensive comment. Not meant as one.
Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
The wooden flooring in his garden gym thread?Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
The Gauge said:
R6tty said:
Been following this one from the start, and it is PH at its absolute finest! A man taking the time to endlessly dig himself a bigger and bigger hole while all around him try and pull him out. I don't think its a wind-up. I don't think it's going to end well. Works 80 hours a week, chair of two charities, young child, motorbike and car, advanced motorist (FFS), yet can't understand the simplest way the world works. Obviously on the spectrum in some way, but I suspect the Woke world we live in will take that as offensive comment. Not meant as one.
Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
The wooden flooring in his garden gym thread?Reminds me of runeveryinchoftheworld.
kiethton said:
How? As I've said - I've sent the form back, in the time limit, completed to the letter. I have fulfilled my obligation.
Because despite being told that in legislation and case law you HAVE been in a collision, you haven't correctly filled the form out.Your reason for doing this - you don't want to incriminate yourself. Incriminate yourself how? Everyone on here is agreeing with you, this is an unfortunate accident where someone has fallen in the road in front of you (It's still a collision).......unless you know different.
At the very least, seek legal advice, rather than spend you precious time discussing the issue here or with you "AD" friends.
kiethton said:
I've come to a realisation on London commuting.
In the winter it's horrific, cold, wet, depressing and concentrating on the road after a 13 hour stint in the office is becoming increasingly difficult. I'm also facing a new kit capex cycle (that I've been putting off for years), have (touch wood) never been in an off, my bike hasn't been stolen from its new on-street city parking, I haven't lost my license to the 20mph speed cameras now adorning my route and I've got a young baby.
As such, after the nice summer I think I'll be letting the train take the strain from the autumn, using it as a chance to get up to date on emails - a lot easier now I've moved and am on a better train line. On the flip side, I say this in winter most years so let's see...
In the winter it's horrific, cold, wet, depressing and concentrating on the road after a 13 hour stint in the office is becoming increasingly difficult. I'm also facing a new kit capex cycle (that I've been putting off for years), have (touch wood) never been in an off, my bike hasn't been stolen from its new on-street city parking, I haven't lost my license to the 20mph speed cameras now adorning my route and I've got a young baby.
As such, after the nice summer I think I'll be letting the train take the strain from the autumn, using it as a chance to get up to date on emails - a lot easier now I've moved and am on a better train line. On the flip side, I say this in winter most years so let's see...
kiethton said:
Very scared of having similar - ride a motorbike to work and the 10 or so cameras I pass are now 20 limits (but still set to 30 I think as tbh e change only happened a week ago, not that I'm going to test it intentionally).
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed.
At this rate I'm tempted to let the plate "fall off", no risk of 3 points then and only a minuscule chance of ever being pulled for it
Already now I'm fearful, remembering when to anchor on, creep through and accelerate again is a game easily foiled by distraction or being mid-overtake. My MPG has already fallen by 3% due to the pointless slow downs, knock to 2nd and boot it back to normal speed.
At this rate I'm tempted to let the plate "fall off", no risk of 3 points then and only a minuscule chance of ever being pulled for it
kiethton said:
Just coming to post this - the majority of my commute has now been made 20mph, basically all the way from Norbury - City (through Streatham, Brixton hill etc). Totally ridiculous, like a drive-through penalty every time you get to a camera (although both 20 and 30 signs are showing at the moment!)
The chances of a ticket through a momentary lack of concentration and the piss-take of a parking ticket I got the other month make the case for running with a transposed/no plate greater by the day!
The chances of a ticket through a momentary lack of concentration and the piss-take of a parking ticket I got the other month make the case for running with a transposed/no plate greater by the day!
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