The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)

[StuTheGrouch]

I had Usyk 3-4 points ahead by the end. It was a close fight until about the 8th round and then Usyk took control.

I genuinely cannot understand the standing count in the 9th. I've seen so many fights stopped in similar circumstances (or even sooner than the count), yet Fury seems to get given a lot of chances. Being flat on his back vs Wilder, that would have been waved off immediately had it been any other fighter.

Great fight last night though, it was a genuinely intriguing contest.

[Googie]

Official scorecard on link below - all 3 judges gave Fury the last round

https://www.mmafighting.com/2024/5/18/24159945/ole...

[glazbagun]

vladcjelli said:

Fury appeared to rely on holding Usyk off with his left arm. Not boxing, just holding him off. Surprised he didn’t use his size to wear the smaller man down like he has in the past, leaning all over the other guy.

Definitely the right decision, but Fury could have done more.

Usyk looked like a fighter, Fury looked a bit like a clown at times.

That was my thought. Thought we'd see Wilder II Fury weighing Usyk down for rounds at a time. No idea what the early round clowning was about, was he just embarrassed he couldn't hit him?

What is PH's view on the middle when Fury seemed so comfortable? Had Usyk stopped doing something or had Fury changed something up? Usyk had the centre for the whole fight & then suddenly didn't.

[philv]

Just watched the 9th again.

The ref intercedes with fury on the ropes, but still moving.
He's not stuck on the ropes.

He definitely interceded too early.

Look at the exact moment the ref starts moving.

[Pugaris]

pitboard said:

I didn’t watch the fight, but many thanks for the comments of those of you who obviously know far more about the sport than I.
Would there be any truth in my opinion that any heavyweight who can’t dispatch an opponent two stones lighter doesn’t deserve to be heavyweight champion?

It depends...

Weight has diminishing returns at Heavyweight, Fury's best ever shape was at 247lbs against Klitschko, getting older and tubbier doesn't make you a better fighter, and once you are beyond a certain size (height and weight) your mobility drops off quickly, much more quickly than between someone 5 foot 6 and 6 foot for example, Vs 6 foot 3 and 6 foot 9.

Generally, I think the concept of a new breed of super heavies that are too big for fighters of old is, frankly, bullst. When the HW division lacks talent, the bigger, heavier guys tend to dominate because in the absence of great skill, size really matters.

Prime Lennox Lewis, the best of the super heavyweights, in his prime was 245lbs and 6 foot 4 and a half, that's in between Fury and Usyk's weight and a little closer to Usyk's height. He was a perfect blend of power, strength and mobility.

[glazbagun]

philv said:

Just watched the 9th again.

The ref intercedes with fury on the ropes, but still moving.
He's not stuck on the ropes.

He definitely interceded too early.

Look at the exact moment the ref starts moving.

It was a knockdown- right at the end of this clip when Fury crashes into the corner post. He isn't standing, he's falling:

https://x.com/rshereme/status/1792132655363784991

[Pugaris]

jasonrobertson86 said:

Are you saying its ok for the ref to stop a fighter hitting another during a round to give him a break?

It's ok for a ref to call a knockdown if the only thing holding a fighter up is the ropes, that's in the rule book

The difficulty here is that didn't happen until Fury had been stumbling around out on his feet for 20 secs, hit with 15 consecutive punches and not intelligently defending himself. I'd have stopped it

[PRO5T]

Pugaris said:

When the HW division lacks talent, the bigger, heavier guys tend to dominate because in the absence of great skill, size really matters.

I can agree with that, I don't think Fury would have evolved into a better fighter if he stopped going at six foot four however.

[Pugaris]

glazbagun said:

That was my thought. Thought we'd see Wilder II Fury weighing Usyk down for rounds at a time. No idea what the early round clowning was about, was he just embarrassed he couldn't hit him?

What is PH's view on the middle when Fury seemed so comfortable? Had Usyk stopped doing something or had Fury changed something up? Usyk had the centre for the whole fight & then suddenly didn't.

To your first paragraph, he did try a couple of times, but Usyk prevented it. He positioned himself so Fury couldn't lean on him and had him in a headlock at one point and in another, he caught Fury with a nasty short shot. Usyk is strong as an ox, and very clever, Wilder has legs made of streaks of piss and doesn't know what he's doing. Think Fury just realized it was too dangerous to do often, much like he did with Ngannou for different reasons.

To your second, I think a few things happened:

1. Usyk adjusted from initially pressuring with a consistent rhythm to a more stacatto, in-and-out approach that gave Fury fits. When Fury was having the most success, it's when Usyk's pressure was still in that consistent rhythm and Fury got dialled into it after the first 3 rounds.

2. As a result of 1, Fury was as able to time uppercuts as Usyk moved in to perfection. Usyk accepted the uppercuts as the cost of getting into mid range after a whilr. Previously these forced him back, in the 8th round he starts to do work off them

3. Fury conceded the outside foot position which helped him land his jab and disguise his body shots

4. After a while, Usyk adjusted to Fury's body work and used it to land his big left hand and right hook. Fury so consistently working the body is what nearly won him the fight and nearly got him knocked out. He left himself wide open by doing it and eventually Usyk punished it

[Pugaris]

PRO5T said:

I can agree with that, I don't think Fury would have evolved into a better fighter if he stopped going at six foot four however.

Yeah Fury's ridiculously long arms, and surprising hand speed and foot speed for his height make him pretty unique. If he had fk you power then Usyk probably would have lost last night

[philv]

glazbagun said:

It was a knockdown- right at the end of this clip when Fury crashes into the corner post. He isn't standing, he's falling:

https://x.com/rshereme/status/1792132655363784991

yes .... Yes falling. FALLING.
He hadn't stopped.

Does a ref intercede when a fighter is hit, on the wAy down, to stop the other guy getting a shot in on the way down?
No he doesn't.

[vladcjelli]

philv said:

Just watched the 9th again.

The ref intercedes with fury on the ropes, but still moving.
He's not stuck on the ropes.

He definitely interceded too early.

Look at the exact moment the ref starts moving.

At the time I wasn’t sure, but on reflection, the ref not only gives him the leaning count, but prior to that when Usyk is pressing his advantage, it feels like he is getting in the way. One moment in particular he almost looks like he’s going in to stop it and effectively blocks Usyk swinging his left. Suspicious referee activity in my opinion.

[pitboard]

It was the right result for lots of reasons. What an unspeakable oaf Fury is.
My weekend would reach a perfect end of the local police would do their job and arrest Fury Snr for assault

[PRO5T]

Watching it again (sober!) I reckon Usyk pulls out of hitting Fury when he's going down as he either thought the ref was going to step in and stop it or compassion.

[fridaypassion]

StuTheGrouch said:

I had Usyk 3-4 points ahead by the end. It was a close fight until about the 8th round and then Usyk took control.

I genuinely cannot understand the standing count in the 9th. I've seen so many fights stopped in similar circumstances (or even sooner than the count), yet Fury seems to get given a lot of chances. Being flat on his back vs Wilder, that would have been waved off immediately had it been any other fighter.

Great fight last night though, it was a genuinely intriguing contest.

The count was fair it would have been a knockdown if the ropes weren't there to hold him up. I dont think he was knocked out at that stage he was certainly buzzed but there isn't a ref in the world that would wave the fight off at that point given the level of both fighters they are expected to be able to recover enough to carry on. At a lower level it may very well have been waved off to save the fighter for another day.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

MrBogSmith said:

I wonder with Fury’s well documented mental health struggles whether this will tilt him the wrong way. He’s expressed how it’s boxing that keeps him on the rails.

I hope it doesn’t cause him to spiral.

TwigtheWonderkid said:

MrBogSmith said:

As a casual I thought it was a close fight.

Always surprises me how three professional boxing judges watching the same fight can be quite far one another come the end.

If 4 rounds are very close, it's very possible for one judge to think boxer A just shaded them all, the 2nd judge give 2 rounds to boxer A and 2 to boxer B, and the 3rd judge to think boxer B shaded them all. So in a close fight, you can easily get a big disparity.

Thanks that makes sense.

It’s a very imperfect system compared to most sports.

It's crazy. 1st round, really close, boxer A shades it. 2nd round the same, 3rd round, boxer B beats the living daylights out of boxer A, who just about stays on his feet. The result of those rounds, boxer A, who can barely stand up, wins 29-28.

[jasonrobertson86]

Pugaris said:

jasonrobertson86 said:

Are you saying its ok for the ref to stop a fighter hitting another during a round to give him a break?

It's ok for a ref to call a knockdown if the only thing holding a fighter up is the ropes, that's in the rule book

The difficulty here is that didn't happen until Fury had been stumbling around out on his feet for 20 secs, hit with 15 consecutive punches and not intelligently defending himself. I'd have stopped it

That's what I am getting at. My understanding was stop the fight or let it continue. No halfway hosue of holding his hand and giving him a break. I hope he gets asked about that decision. The fight should have been stopped (and you could imagine the moaning from fury side/fans)

[Pugaris]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

It's crazy. 1st round, really close, boxer A shades it. 2nd round the same, 3rd round, boxer B beats the living daylights out of boxer A, who just about stays on his feet. The result of those rounds, boxer A, who can barely stand up, wins 29-28.

3rd round, as you've described, can be and should be scored 10-8

[Pugaris]

jasonrobertson86 said:

That's what I am getting at. My understanding was stop the fight or let it continue. No halfway hosue of holding his hand and giving him a break. I hope he gets asked about that decision. The fight should have been stopped (and you could imagine the moaning from fury side/fans)

The ref definitely has the discretion to do exactly what he did, he called a knockdown and it was just about a knockdown

The worst part in that sequence is that twice before he kind of indecisively tries to jump in and stops Usyk landing more, Usyk actually had to gently push him to the side at one point

I also think this is why Usyk let off slightly, the ref was kinda waiting for an excuse to jump in, and if I was Usyk I'd assume that was to stop the fight. Usyk doesn't love really hurting people so he'd want the stoppage with as little damage as possible. If the ref was more decisive earlier I think Usyk would have landed more

[Bright Halo]

Fury stated in his post fight interview that Usyk went to hospital with a broken jaw. I haven’t heard that anywhere else, have any of you?