Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll
Poll: Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll
Total Members Polled: 1027
Discussion
sawman said:
pghstochaj said:
There are only about 10,000 medical graduates in total, per annum?
Yes but potential GP trainees will have been through foundation years, may have started (and possibly finished) or not been able to access specialist training in a secondary care setting, so the pool of applicants could be from a post grad pool of 10 years or so of medical school graduatesA quick check suggests that there are 132k doctors within the NHS, of which about 52k are GPs. This happens to be 40%, exactly the same percentage as the number of GP training posts versus the total number of medic graduates per annum. That's not a coincidence.
It's not about the pool that might have failed, it's about continuously matching the need for GPs.
Edit: to add:
"12000 applications for 4000 gp training posts leaves 8000 highly skilled young docs looking elsewhere for gainful employment"
Absolutely, like every other discipline in medicine other than general practice, you know, the bulk of medicine.
Edited by pghstochaj on Friday 17th May 10:57
not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.
Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
Tomorrow I will spend the afternoon and evening with 7 junior doctors and one new GP partner, all in their early thirties, all have been studying and taking exams on top of 48 hour + working weeks for the last 10 years. Most Fellows of their chosen specialty Royal Colleges. All being paid considerably less than I make and all contributing far more to society.
It will be interesting to gage the atmosphere.
It will be interesting to gage the atmosphere.
sawman said:
not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.
Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
It makes you feel old when available 'historical' data doesn't come close to capturing your own lived experience Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
sawman said:
not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.
Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
I think it is mostly working Mothers that are behind the rise in part time hours among GPs.Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
https://bjgpopen.org/content/7/4/BJGPO.2022.0173#:...
The number of GPs has gone up, by around 40% since 2000, but total hours worked by all GPs has gone up only slightly due to less hours being worked and the trend toward part time working.
There is a whole separate debate about how medical schools now admit more than 50% women and those women have, if they have children, a preference for working part time.
To be clear, I think this is a very good thing (I'm married to a female doctor who has worked part time since our children were born).
However, it does suggest that we need to train many more doctors (and that numbers of doctors employed by the NHS is not a useful statistic - but FTE would be).
To be clear, I think this is a very good thing (I'm married to a female doctor who has worked part time since our children were born).
However, it does suggest that we need to train many more doctors (and that numbers of doctors employed by the NHS is not a useful statistic - but FTE would be).
spaximus said:
As for Gp positions, again she has several friends who are Gp’s not partners and in one they lost two Gp,s and have replaced with PA’s as they are half the cost of a Gp, but are half the person which is shameful.
For what it's worth, there's a petition here asking the Government to revaluate the role of Physician Associates: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/658123JagLover said:
sawman said:
not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.
Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
I think it is mostly working Mothers that are behind the rise in part time hours among GPs.Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...
https://bjgpopen.org/content/7/4/BJGPO.2022.0173#:...
The number of GPs has gone up, by around 40% since 2000, but total hours worked by all GPs has gone up only slightly due to less hours being worked and the trend toward part time working.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).
S600BSB said:
ArmaghMan said:
Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).
Same. Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).
I have been in continuous employment for the last 36 years and nowadays, work means people want more work, done faster and for lower relative money than ever before.
My wife and I never take days off sick, even if we are, and I give up 6 days per year holiday every single year, out of 22 total. We get no overtime, no flexi days, and dont get paid holiday not taken.
And I am not alone in my business or indeed sector, this is the rather sad reality of working live for tens of millions nowadays.
The modern business sector has embraced technology that was designed to make life easier, but in reality has sadly made millions of us almost prisoners to their work and jobs.
ConnectionError said:
So Kier Starmer has just confirmed that 35% is a non starter if Labour get in.
What happens now?
Reality sets in for any staff who are listening [not many?] -although it's no different to what has been said all along.What happens now?
Separately, what on earth is the point of staff continuing to protest at hospital entrances - there's no chance whatsover of any progress when we have an imminent General Election ?
ConnectionError said:
So Kier Starmer has just confirmed that 35% is a non starter if Labour get in.
What happens now?
The last solution I heard Starmer present, was to talk to the unions. Problem solved. What happens now?
Labour may be ahead on the slightly-more-likeable test but I'm seeing nothing that suggests competence.
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