EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
clockworks said:
If they stopped and thought about it, they'd realise that £20 a week in their 1.2 Corsa was about what they'd get from a single charge in the electric version, and it would only cost them £3 on a decent tariff.
In reality, a BEV would probably suit them perfectly. They are just not savvy enough to work it out.
Might be hard to concieve but some people don't want an EV regardless of what monetary savings it might bring, they might not even want a 1.2 Corsa - personal preference is great. Some are not savvy enough to work that out though.In reality, a BEV would probably suit them perfectly. They are just not savvy enough to work it out.
MightyBadger said:
Might be hard to concieve but some people don't want an EV regardless of what monetary savings it might bring, they might not even want a 1.2 Corsa - personal preference is great. Some are not savvy enough to work that out though.
Amazing that you’d think that you’re the first person to post that clockworks said:
I don't get the "range anxiety" thing for the average motorist. If it wasn't constantly being touted as an issue by the media/social media posters. would the majority even worry about it?
Fact is, many car drivers have no idea about what mog or range their ICE vehicle does, or even how many miles the drive per week/month/year. They just stick £20/£30/£40 in the tank once a week/fortnight/month. They take no account of the price of fuel, just get upset when their £20s worth doesn't last until payday.
If you ask them how economical their car is, they'l just say "it's great, £20 lasts me a week". No explanation of how many miles they do, how often they drive, or what the road conditions are. "£20 a week/between visits to the petrol station" is all they care about.
If they stopped and thought about it, they'd realise that £20 a week in their 1.2 Corsa was about what they'd get from a single charge in the electric version, and it would only cost them £3 on a decent tariff.
In reality, a BEV would probably suit them perfectly. They are just not savvy enough to work it out.
It's more the fact that they know there's a petrol station near by where it won't take them more than 5 minutes to fill up a tank if need be (that's the norm, not this well I had to wait 20 minutes because Sandra was doing her Tesco big shop in the petrol station, which actually rarely happens). Fact is, many car drivers have no idea about what mog or range their ICE vehicle does, or even how many miles the drive per week/month/year. They just stick £20/£30/£40 in the tank once a week/fortnight/month. They take no account of the price of fuel, just get upset when their £20s worth doesn't last until payday.
If you ask them how economical their car is, they'l just say "it's great, £20 lasts me a week". No explanation of how many miles they do, how often they drive, or what the road conditions are. "£20 a week/between visits to the petrol station" is all they care about.
If they stopped and thought about it, they'd realise that £20 a week in their 1.2 Corsa was about what they'd get from a single charge in the electric version, and it would only cost them £3 on a decent tariff.
In reality, a BEV would probably suit them perfectly. They are just not savvy enough to work it out.
People know that it's also highly unlikely a petrol station will be out of service entirely or have to wait a long period of time to use a pump. With the EV chargers, you have no idea how long you might be waiting if they are full. If it's at a supermarket, that person could be gone 10 minutes or 1 hour. The charger is taken up until they return. Whereas at a fuel station, you know that it's only a matter of minutes unless you are really unlucky.
Yes running an EV to get the same range is cheaper if at home but with lotto public chargers it could be cheaper, the same or you might even have to wait an hour. Who knows.
MightyBadger said:
LowTread said:
"Evangelists"..
It seemed pretty fitting in this thread tbh, I only posted two articles and both contained facts (neither were a windup or made up) and all I got was *****. Keep singing those praises, ignore things people post, be horrible to anyone who posts anything you think brings down the image of EVs or might even contain truth. Sorry I even posted in this thread.
Suns out, have a fantastic day
tamore said:
we're yet to see how sainsburys are going to set their charging stations up. if they are a row of chargers in an existing carpark, or more of a petrol station setup.
Row of eight chargers in the normal carpark at my local Sainos. Well away from the store, and clearly marked big wide spaces, plus spaces for waiting too.Mikehig said:
FT sub-headline (article paywalled):
"Governments slap taxes on EVs as $110bn fuel duty shortfall looms
New levies and fees worldwide add cost to electric-car buyers as sales growth cools"
PPM doesn't have to involve tracking, aiui. All that's needed is for the car to report its mileage - unless differential charging is planned for, say, urban vs rural areas.
What they will want to do is seek to follow the same intent as TfL which would be to track the vehicles so as to charge higher amounts based on time of day and route etc. "Governments slap taxes on EVs as $110bn fuel duty shortfall looms
New levies and fees worldwide add cost to electric-car buyers as sales growth cools"
PPM doesn't have to involve tracking, aiui. All that's needed is for the car to report its mileage - unless differential charging is planned for, say, urban vs rural areas.
The key is that it isn't just invasive but regressive so has a negative electoral aspect. Meanwhile, introducing energy consumption taxation tiers in the same vein as income taxation is the exact opposite in that it is progressive taxation and a massive vote winner. Plus, much easier to implement under a Labour than a Con govt.
The other aspect to energy tax levies is that the highest consumers will tend to be the group who can most easily invest in self generation and storage which means those subsidies and incentives could be dumped but the Grid still assisted in the net zero transition by those not just willing and blue to fill a roof with solar and a room with storage but suddenly remarkably keen to do so to mitigate some of the new taxation. Meanwhile others can go and ask their granny how to put a jumper on.
otolith said:
Even that wouldn't be terribly useful, though, to the people who want to know how far they can drive on the motorway before it needs a charge. If the bulk of real world EV mileage is low speed urban and suburban stuff, it might come in even further from the realistic motorway range than the WLTP figure.
They'd have two sets of numbers to work with. After that they're just going to have to use their brain and for everyone who hasn't got one of those there is the AA. We really can't be spoon feeding idiots all their requirements. DonkeyApple said:
They'd have two sets of numbers to work with. After that they're just going to have to use their brain and for everyone who hasn't got one of those there is the AA. We really can't be spoon feeding idiots all their requirements.
The thing is, they can already google real world figures. Plonkers gonna plonk.MightyBadger said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I couldn't care less who buys what I just like to pop in here to laugh at the mis information from those who feel so threatened about a cars source of propulsion.
That's exactly what I'm doing, posting two articles that highlight milage claim and shortfalls - clearing up misinformation by posting facts 
I don't care what anyone drives or buys either, just enjoy it and have fun.
Just don't keep writing off actual facts as mis-information, that's silly.
Both are equally irrelevant IMO.
I just googled the real world range of a VW ID5. Funnily enough the answer was readily available within the first few words.
MightyBadger said:
otolith said:
And if you think about it, given how differently people use their cars, can you really condense that into a single number that does anything really beyond allowing you to guess one car is probably more efficient than another?
The thing is that number is what a lot of people will base their buying on, why mislead customers?So a 2% differential between WLTP figures and reality in the favour of the Diesel - hardly anything to write home about. I'll get more range as it warms up and less when it's colder, but that's just physics - I'm ok with that.
WLTP isn't a claim of range, it's a performance against a standard - surely there is no court case to answer here and should rightly be dismissed as such. The only exception would be one of misleading advertising, whereby a manufacturer was found to have worded their promotional material in such a way that it is conveyed as a claimed range as opposed to the results of the WLTP test.
ChocolateFrog said:
I just googled the real world range of a VW ID5. Funnily enough the answer was readily available within the first few words.
And? The car in reference was an ID7, which is nearly 100 miles shorter range than claimed/publicised. I read it in an article, what is the difference? There will be no doubt that some people who 'pay da mumflies' that will take what manaufacturers claim as gospel, more fool them I suppose.ChocolateFrog said:
I just wondering when he'll move onto fires and recycling.
Right now actually Took a while for me to work out you don't like any posts from people who don't love EVs to bits. Two articles many other 'No EV fanatics' would find interesting, especially the court case one.
Edited by MightyBadger on Tuesday 7th May 13:17
Ankh87 said:
It's more the fact that they know there's a petrol station near by where it won't take them more than 5 minutes to fill up a tank if need be (that's the norm, not this well I had to wait 20 minutes because Sandra was doing her Tesco big shop in the petrol station, which actually rarely happens).
People know that it's also highly unlikely a petrol station will be out of service entirely or have to wait a long period of time to use a pump. With the EV chargers, you have no idea how long you might be waiting if they are full. If it's at a supermarket, that person could be gone 10 minutes or 1 hour. The charger is taken up until they return. Whereas at a fuel station, you know that it's only a matter of minutes unless you are really unlucky.
Yes running an EV to get the same range is cheaper if at home but with lotto public chargers it could be cheaper, the same or you might even have to wait an hour. Who knows.
My point was that many, if not most, drivers have no idea how far they drive each week, how much fuel they use per mile, or how far their car will go on a full tank.People know that it's also highly unlikely a petrol station will be out of service entirely or have to wait a long period of time to use a pump. With the EV chargers, you have no idea how long you might be waiting if they are full. If it's at a supermarket, that person could be gone 10 minutes or 1 hour. The charger is taken up until they return. Whereas at a fuel station, you know that it's only a matter of minutes unless you are really unlucky.
Yes running an EV to get the same range is cheaper if at home but with lotto public chargers it could be cheaper, the same or you might even have to wait an hour. Who knows.
Range anxiety really shouldn't be an issue for them, as they have no "ICE numbers" to compare with.
Charging anxiety may or may not be a real problem for some. Depends on circumstances - home charging availability, distance driven in a day, etc. Can't deny that it's easier and faster to fill up with petrol than charging on a public charger.
For the majority of drivers, range would rarely be an issue if they thought about it themselves.
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