Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
She is another very odd, prominent far beyond her abilities or benefits to the the UK, Tory MPThere's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
I'm the classic floating voter. Voted Conservative at the last three elections though.There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.I despise almost everything Braverman and the Tufton Street loons stand for. If they want to lose my vote forever, put Braverman front and centre.
119 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Yeah to be fair I could understand how she'd make perfect sense to you and a few others on here.
Get your arse kicked and convince yourself the reason it happened is you haven't left the ECHR or tackled whatever you think keeps the public awake at night about "guidance on transgender ideology in schools" and all the other batst stuff in that article.
Sounds like you and she have really got your fingers on the pulse.
Probably explains why it all went so well on Thursday.
Indeed.Get your arse kicked and convince yourself the reason it happened is you haven't left the ECHR or tackled whatever you think keeps the public awake at night about "guidance on transgender ideology in schools" and all the other bats
t stuff in that article.Sounds like you and she have really got your fingers on the pulse.
Probably explains why it all went so well on Thursday.
Labour are winning by default coz it certainly ain’t their policies.
(Waiting for the Starmer teet suckers to come up with another plausible reason why)
It will be about competence.
The Tories have proved themselves incompetent. Labour will therefore rightly be given an opportunity to show their mettle. i suspect that they will also be incompetent (part of the reason is that there are no simple solutions to the issues that the country faces). Politicians love to suggest that there are simple pain-free solutions to intractable problems. The electorate loves to believe them.
No party from what I've seen has the first clue how to start us on the path to recovery nor the balls to explain to the British electorate that the path will be long, difficult and painful for everyone. To alter the the line from Jean-Claude Juncker, "No-one knows what to do, and even if we did, we wouldn't know how to get re-elected after we'd done it."
This election is a foregone conclusion. It's the one after when the British people will have a much, much more difficult choice.
AstonZagato said:
I don't think the next election will be about left or right, policies or soundbites, inflation or immigrants.
It will be about competence.
The Tories have proved themselves incompetent. Labour will therefore rightly be given an opportunity to show their mettle. i suspect that they will also be incompetent (part of the reason is that there are no simple solutions to the issues that the country faces). Politicians love to suggest that there are simple pain-free solutions to intractable problems. The electorate loves to believe them.
No party from what I've seen has the first clue how to start us on the path to recovery nor the balls to explain to the British electorate that the path will be long, difficult and painful for everyone. To alter the the line from Jean-Claude Juncker, "No-one knows what to do, and even if we did, we wouldn't know how to get re-elected after we'd done it."
This election is a foregone conclusion. It's the one after when the British people will have a much, much more difficult choice.
Your point is well made (as usual). In short the electorate has got and will get what it deserves. We are a nation of the professionally offended which has no stomach for any serious change or reform and expects the moon on a stick.It will be about competence.
The Tories have proved themselves incompetent. Labour will therefore rightly be given an opportunity to show their mettle. i suspect that they will also be incompetent (part of the reason is that there are no simple solutions to the issues that the country faces). Politicians love to suggest that there are simple pain-free solutions to intractable problems. The electorate loves to believe them.
No party from what I've seen has the first clue how to start us on the path to recovery nor the balls to explain to the British electorate that the path will be long, difficult and painful for everyone. To alter the the line from Jean-Claude Juncker, "No-one knows what to do, and even if we did, we wouldn't know how to get re-elected after we'd done it."
This election is a foregone conclusion. It's the one after when the British people will have a much, much more difficult choice.
The politicians have also long since figured out that telling ot like it is is a recipe for political suicide. They know that the country has no appetite for anything remotely "difficult" so they find ever more convoluted ways to kick the can down the road...again.
Wombat3 said:
The politicians have also long since figured out that telling ot like it is is a recipe for political suicide. They know that the country has no appetite for anything remotely "difficult" so they find ever more convoluted ways to kick the can down the road...again.
Khan. Ulez. Wombat. Wrong.
Again.
President Merkin said:
Wombat3 said:
The politicians have also long since figured out that telling ot like it is is a recipe for political suicide. They know that the country has no appetite for anything remotely "difficult" so they find ever more convoluted ways to kick the can down the road...again.
Khan. Ulez. Wombat. Wrong.
Again.
Indoor air is 3x to 5x more polluted than outdoor urban air, and people spend 90% of time indoors. Even you can see the implications, lack of appropriate prioritising etc.
President Merkin said:
Wombat3 said:
The politicians have also long since figured out that telling ot like it is is a recipe for political suicide. They know that the country has no appetite for anything remotely "difficult" so they find ever more convoluted ways to kick the can down the road...again.
Khan. Ulez. Wombat. Wrong.
Again.
t all over the city he might have a point. Till then it's just a cash grab based on flimsy (at best) evidence.President Merkin said:
The sound of a weak argument moving for the nth time. KHAN REFUSES TO STOP HEATHROW POLLUTION!
You boys are thrashing about like never before & I'm so here for it.
It's not a matter of him stopping Heathrow pollution. Thats way above his pay grade. You boys are thrashing about like never before & I'm so here for it.
Its the fact that his ULEZ scheme is achieving very little at huge cost without consent or concensus. While the planes fly It's pretty pointless.
It's well known he ordered the cameras before the consultation was even completed. Tells you all you need to know.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
People say no to something so the solution is to do even more of it. I don't know why political parties do this so often. It isn't so long since Labour found that the electorate was to the right of Ed Milliband so decided the answer was Corbyn and those are far from the first examples in either party. There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
An odd take.There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.Your view appears to be that because x right lost the logical outcome is to go left.
It doesn’t take a huge leap of reason to suggest the logical outcome is to present an intellectually coherent argument which takes the voters where ever. Assuming everything is a linear output is to put it mildly to ignore the reality of how Johnson broke the ‘red wall’ in the first place.
Ridgemont said:
An odd take.
Your view appears to be that because x right lost the logical outcome is to go left.
It doesn’t take a huge leap of reason to suggest the logical outcome is to present an intellectually coherent argument which takes the voters where ever. Assuming everything is a linear output is to put it mildly to ignore the reality of how Johnson broke the ‘red wall’ in the first place.
You can’t take the voters where they don’t want to go. They don’t want to vote Tory.Your view appears to be that because x right lost the logical outcome is to go left.
It doesn’t take a huge leap of reason to suggest the logical outcome is to present an intellectually coherent argument which takes the voters where ever. Assuming everything is a linear output is to put it mildly to ignore the reality of how Johnson broke the ‘red wall’ in the first place.
272BHP said:
BigMon said:
It reminds me of Corbyn and Momentum. Obviously a massive electoral defeat means the electorate are thirsting for more. harder-right policies from the likes of Braverman and the Tufton Street deplorables.
Braverman could well be right though.UK is simply in a different political cycle from Europe that is all. The right and the far right are making inroads into pretty much all EU countries. One term with Labour in power could well push the UK in that direction as well.
Ultimately the centre cannot hold if all it offers is falling living standards and cultural fragility.
Ridgemont said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
An odd take.There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.Your view appears to be that because x right lost the logical outcome is to go left.
It doesn’t take a huge leap of reason to suggest the logical outcome is to present an intellectually coherent argument which takes the voters where ever. Assuming everything is a linear output is to put it mildly to ignore the reality of how Johnson broke the ‘red wall’ in the first place.
They just got their arses kicked literally worst results in 40 years if I heard correctly.
Now don't get me wrong I agree with 119 and other posters that Starmer hasn't done much to convince the public what Labours vision or plan is but the one thing that is clear is that Braverman frothing on Kuenssberg about a “party of hard left maniacs, who would undo Brexit, who would open our borders, and who would indoctrinate our institutions and schools with PC madness” probably isn't what the Conservatives need right now if they want to persuade the public they should be trusted to get on with the job the public think they've already f
ked up.Personally I think it's a much odder take and a much bigger leap to suggest what she said was anything short of crackers.
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