Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:Ridgemont said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: They've just lost almost 500 seats and you seem to be spinning it as if she's the voice of reason and the solution is to move further to the right.
There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's batst.
An odd take.There's a reason the public hate Braverman and doubling down really isn't the answer here.
It's bats
t.Your view appears to be that because x right lost the logical outcome is to go left.
It doesn’t take a huge leap of reason to suggest the logical outcome is to present an intellectually coherent argument which takes the voters where ever. Assuming everything is a linear output is to put it mildly to ignore the reality of how Johnson broke the ‘red wall’ in the first place.
They just got their arses kicked literally worst results in 40 years if I heard correctly.
Now don't get me wrong I agree with 119 and other posters that Starmer hasn't done much to convince the public what Labours vision or plan is but the one thing that is clear is that Braverman frothing on Kuenssberg about a “party of hard left maniacs, who would undo Brexit, who would open our borders, and who would indoctrinate our institutions and schools with PC madness” probably isn't what the Conservatives need right now if they want to persuade the public they should be trusted to get on with the job the public think they've already f
ked up.Personally I think it's a much odder take and a much bigger leap to suggest what she said was anything short of crackers.
President Merkin said:
Wombat3 said:
The politicians have also long since figured out that telling ot like it is is a recipe for political suicide. They know that the country has no appetite for anything remotely "difficult" so they find ever more convoluted ways to kick the can down the road...again.
Khan. Ulez. Wombat. Wrong.
Again.
S600BSB said:
But wouldn’t it be so wonderful if they would undo Brexit! Admit the huge mistake , suck it up and make you feel proud to be British again.
I do wonder if the remainers on here will be so keen to rejoin the EU once they see it lurching so emphatically to the hard right?"A hard-right tidal wave is about to hit the EU" - Gordon Brown
JagLover said:
272BHP said:
BigMon said:
It reminds me of Corbyn and Momentum. Obviously a massive electoral defeat means the electorate are thirsting for more. harder-right policies from the likes of Braverman and the Tufton Street deplorables.
Braverman could well be right though.UK is simply in a different political cycle from Europe that is all. The right and the far right are making inroads into pretty much all EU countries. One term with Labour in power could well push the UK in that direction as well.
Ultimately the centre cannot hold if all it offers is falling living standards and cultural fragility.
She may have a point.
- *possible exception of Truss but that was collapsed by the Markets & not the electorate. So never really got tested in terms of public support...or not
Edited by Wombat3 on Monday 6th May 08:19
Edited by Wombat3 on Monday 6th May 08:48
The people saying Braverman might have a point reminds me of when Corbyn got his arse kicked in 2019 and rather than accept that perhaps just perhaps the public had complete and utterly rejected almost everything he stood for a section of his supporters insisted that what it really meant is that Corbyn was definitely right and he just needed to double down and go further to the left.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: The people saying Braverman might have a point reminds me of when Corbyn got his arse kicked in 2019 and rather than accept that perhaps just perhaps the public had complete and utterly rejected almost everything he stood for a section of his supporters insisted that what it really meant is that Corbyn was definitely right and he just needed to double down and go further to the left.
Her point is simply that more of the same is going to.lead to more of the Same.By the time Corbyn had his arse kicked we'd had several years to have a good look at him...and there was actually a manifesto to read.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No her point is that having seen almost everything they stand for rejected we need more of it.
We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
You are conflating her views with those of the current administration. Im not sure there is that much overlap (she certainly doesn't think so!)We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
Suella Braverman is not worthy of any comment or discussion, let alone high office, and yet she was given a slot on the BBC and here we are talking about her. When the Tories are given a drubbing at the next election, we can only hope that she and various colleagues with so little to contribute will disappear back into obscurity.
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No her point is that having seen almost everything they stand for rejected we need more of it.
We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
You are conflating her views with those of the current administration. Im not sure there is that much overlap (she certainly doesn't think so!)We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
turbobloke said:
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No her point is that having seen almost everything they stand for rejected we need more of it.
We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
You are conflating her views with those of the current administration. Im not sure there is that much overlap (she certainly doesn't think so!)We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
Wombat3 said:
turbobloke said:
Wombat3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No her point is that having seen almost everything they stand for rejected we need more of it.
We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
You are conflating her views with those of the current administration. Im not sure there is that much overlap (she certainly doesn't think so!)We've had several years to have a good look at the lot in charge.
People seem to have made their minds up.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on hearts and minds.
S600BSB said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: 500 seats lost.
Trust me it isn't me playing the "vilification" card.
You chaps really are in complete denial at what's unfolded so far aren't you
It’s a wonder to behold! And absolutely hilarious. The old boys on NP&E always deliver.Trust me it isn't me playing the "vilification" card.
You chaps really are in complete denial at what's unfolded so far aren't you
turbobloke said:
It's easier to play the vilification card (on those with differing opinions) with such confusion/conflation, so it happens.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
Latest YouGov poll puts the Tories on 18% (!!!) and Labour on 44%. 26% lead, which incidentally was the same as the swing in Blackpool South. As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
There is little fragility.
Fusion777 said:
turbobloke said:
It's easier to play the vilification card (on those with differing opinions) with such confusion/conflation, so it happens.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
Latest YouGov poll puts the Tories on 18% (!!!) and Labour on 44%. 26% lead, which incidentally was the same as the swing in Blackpool South. As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
There is little fragility.
S600BSB said:
But wouldn’t it be so wonderful if they would undo Brexit! Admit the huge mistake , suck it up and make you feel proud to be British again.
No, it would be an absolutely horrendous mistake, and much, much worse than Brexit itself.And I say that as someone who voted remain and thinks Brexit was a huge mistake.
We need to accept that ship has sailed, move on and have an administration that makes the best of the current situation. And it needs grown-ups at the EU to accept that too so that alll parties can work together for the benefit of all.
I won't hold my breath.
Randy Winkman said:
Yes - he did something that offended many people, resulted in widespread vandalism and was "rumoured" to have lost him an election. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the policy, he did actually do that.
I did think he might possibly have lost. It seemed possible simply because of the high-handed way he went about Ulez. Not so much the policy itself. I read about rumours he might struggle in the Guardian. It seemed viable to me. The turnout was much higher than expected in the end, and ended up with a small swing to Khan.
I was utterly wrong. It’s good to be wrong sometimes.
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