Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Fusion777 said:
Latest YouGov poll puts the Tories on 18% (!!!) and Labour on 44%. 26% lead, which incidentally was the same as the swing in Blackpool South.
There is little fragility.
I think the Blackpool by election result has been slightly overlooked, the swing does reinforce what the polls have been saying, again. There is little fragility.
The whole Braverman business is just a reflection of where the Tory party is right now, they’ve lost their identity (along with credibility and competence) and need a period in the shallow end to sort themselves out. I’d personally like to see a hung parliament and with it a push to change our outmoded, outdated political system.
W124 said:
I did think he might possibly have lost. It seemed possible simply because of the high-handed way he went about Ulez. Not so much the policy itself.
I read about rumours he might struggle in the Guardian. It seemed viable to me. The turnout was much higher than expected in the end, and ended up with a small swing to Khan.
I was utterly wrong. It’s good to be wrong sometimes.
I've always got respect for someone that can admit getting things wrong (we all do it at times).I read about rumours he might struggle in the Guardian. It seemed viable to me. The turnout was much higher than expected in the end, and ended up with a small swing to Khan.
I was utterly wrong. It’s good to be wrong sometimes.
S600BSB said:
But wouldn’t it be so wonderful if they would undo Brexit! Admit the huge mistake , suck it up and make you feel proud to be British again.
I’m no fan of Brexit but that was the result of a democratic vote. Labour lost the Red Wall because it tried to frustrate the will of the British people. So no, it would not be wonderful unless they had another referendum (and I dislike referenda too). Do the British people have the appetite for another referendum and an outcome that would mean losing the Pound? I’m not sure they do at the moment. Another 10 years maybe.
Fusion777 said:
W124 said:
I did think he might possibly have lost. It seemed possible simply because of the high-handed way he went about Ulez. Not so much the policy itself.
I read about rumours he might struggle in the Guardian. It seemed viable to me. The turnout was much higher than expected in the end, and ended up with a small swing to Khan.
I was utterly wrong. It’s good to be wrong sometimes.
I've always got respect for someone that can admit getting things wrong (we all do it at times).I read about rumours he might struggle in the Guardian. It seemed viable to me. The turnout was much higher than expected in the end, and ended up with a small swing to Khan.
I was utterly wrong. It’s good to be wrong sometimes.
A bit of background on Sir Keir Starmer for those that don't know much about him :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Starmer
Braverman isn’t hated by the electorate, they/we simply don’t understand her. A successful politician can absolutely be hated, but they can’t be misunderstood or leave constituents in confusion.
“Why is she blabbering on about ECHR, boats and not the economy?” etc…
The public have bugger all interest in that stuff compared to money. They/we never do.
Then add that to - I think it was Zagato who mentioned it - the competence thing and er voila. I’ve banged on, repeatedly, about the inept uselessness of whoever has been running No10 office since Dom left. The simple truth is that they have been operationally incompetent. I suspect a large part of that is because they don’t actually know what they are governing for. Who honestly thinks a middle class economic geek boy like Rishi passionately cares about sodding small boats in the Channel??!
SKS is going to walk this election purely on not saying/doing anything to put ppl off and let the Tories hang themselves. It’s a woefully poor way to win a GE, but good Lord you don’t stand in the way of an opponent intent on kicking themselves!
“Why is she blabbering on about ECHR, boats and not the economy?” etc…
The public have bugger all interest in that stuff compared to money. They/we never do.
Then add that to - I think it was Zagato who mentioned it - the competence thing and er voila. I’ve banged on, repeatedly, about the inept uselessness of whoever has been running No10 office since Dom left. The simple truth is that they have been operationally incompetent. I suspect a large part of that is because they don’t actually know what they are governing for. Who honestly thinks a middle class economic geek boy like Rishi passionately cares about sodding small boats in the Channel??!
SKS is going to walk this election purely on not saying/doing anything to put ppl off and let the Tories hang themselves. It’s a woefully poor way to win a GE, but good Lord you don’t stand in the way of an opponent intent on kicking themselves!
AstonZagato said:
S600BSB said:
But wouldn’t it be so wonderful if they would undo Brexit! Admit the huge mistake , suck it up and make you feel proud to be British again.
I’m no fan of Brexit but that was the result of a democratic vote. Labour lost the Red Wall because it tried to frustrate the will of the British people. So no, it would not be wonderful unless they had another referendum (and I dislike referenda too). Do the British people have the appetite for another referendum and an outcome that would mean losing the Pound? I’m not sure they do at the moment. Another 10 years maybe.
AstonZagato said:
S600BSB said:
But wouldn’t it be so wonderful if they would undo Brexit! Admit the huge mistake , suck it up and make you feel proud to be British again.
I’m no fan of Brexit but that was the result of a democratic vote. Labour lost the Red Wall because it tried to frustrate the will of the British people. So no, it would not be wonderful unless they had another referendum (and I dislike referenda too). Do the British people have the appetite for another referendum and an outcome that would mean losing the Pound? I’m not sure they do at the moment. Another 10 years maybe.
DeejRC said:
Braverman isn’t hated by the electorate, they/we simply don’t understand her. A successful politician can absolutely be hated, but they can’t be misunderstood or leave constituents in confusion.
“Why is she blabbering on about ECHR, boats and not the economy?” etc…
The public have bugger all interest in that stuff compared to money. They/we never do.
Then add that to - I think it was Zagato who mentioned it - the competence thing and er voila. I’ve banged on, repeatedly, about the inept uselessness of whoever has been running No10 office since Dom left. The simple truth is that they have been operationally incompetent. I suspect a large part of that is because they don’t actually know what they are governing for. Who honestly thinks a middle class economic geek boy like Rishi passionately cares about sodding small boats in the Channel??!
SKS is going to walk this election purely on not saying/doing anything to put ppl off and let the Tories hang themselves. It’s a woefully poor way to win a GE, but good Lord you don’t stand in the way of an opponent intent on kicking themselves!
I rather suspect it's les that the electorate don't understand Braverman but simply think she's bats“Why is she blabbering on about ECHR, boats and not the economy?” etc…
The public have bugger all interest in that stuff compared to money. They/we never do.
Then add that to - I think it was Zagato who mentioned it - the competence thing and er voila. I’ve banged on, repeatedly, about the inept uselessness of whoever has been running No10 office since Dom left. The simple truth is that they have been operationally incompetent. I suspect a large part of that is because they don’t actually know what they are governing for. Who honestly thinks a middle class economic geek boy like Rishi passionately cares about sodding small boats in the Channel??!
SKS is going to walk this election purely on not saying/doing anything to put ppl off and let the Tories hang themselves. It’s a woefully poor way to win a GE, but good Lord you don’t stand in the way of an opponent intent on kicking themselves!
t insane and crazily zealous about irrelevant crap... there is a bit of a difference....Blue62 said:
I think the Blackpool by election result has been slightly overlooked, the swing does reinforce what the polls have been saying, again.
I don’t think it’s particularly representative, it’s a traditional long held Labour seat that was won by a complete **** in the BoJo landslide, and then publicly proved what **** he is to the electorate It’s just gone back to what it always was
S600BSB said:
Fusion777 said:
turbobloke said:
It's easier to play the vilification card (on those with differing opinions) with such confusion/conflation, so it happens.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
Latest YouGov poll puts the Tories on 18% (!!!) and Labour on 44%. 26% lead, which incidentally was the same as the swing in Blackpool South. As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
There is little fragility.
Uxbridge was considered nailed on for Labour so a number of apathetic would-be Labour voters didn't bother to vote and they lost by something like 500 votes. The swing was still large towards Labour but the votes simply weren't there. Labour do not want a repeat of that spread nationwide so expectations must be managed so we'll hear a lot of noise playing down what the polls are showing.
Labour still need a good turnout to rout the Tories. A poor turnout will only assist the Tories in retaining some marginal seats.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:DeejRC said:
Braverman isn’t hated by the electorate, they/we simply don’t understand her.
Yeah Deej that'll be it.They simply don't understand her.
Christ
It’s a fair point.
The reason is that she also does not care about these things. The only option she has is to hope the Conservatives disappear down the jingoistic rabbit hole they are threatening to. She wants to run things if they do. Should this happen, she has to out jingo the next man. Even then, she hasn’t got a hope. The wind has changed.
valiant said:
S600BSB said:
Fusion777 said:
turbobloke said:
It's easier to play the vilification card (on those with differing opinions) with such confusion/conflation, so it happens.
As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
Latest YouGov poll puts the Tories on 18% (!!!) and Labour on 44%. 26% lead, which incidentally was the same as the swing in Blackpool South. As to minds being made up, it could be so, however Labour's media chums at the Guardian mention the poll lead as fragile and question whether Labour have on heawrts and minds,
There is little fragility.
Uxbridge was considered nailed on for Labour so a number of apathetic would-be Labour voters didn't bother to vote and they lost by something like 500 votes. The swing was still large towards Labour but the votes simply weren't there. Labour do not want a repeat of that spread nationwide so expectations must be managed so we'll hear a lot of noise playing down what the polls are showing.
Labour still need a good turnout to rout the Tories. A poor turnout will only assist the Tories in retaining some marginal seats.
S600BSB said:
Spot on. One of the things that gives me hope is that Labour’s organisation for the locals was first class - genuinely impressive. The Tories have also potentially lost some of their local party capacity by performing so badly at these local elections. We will see - there are certainly going to be a lot of people working bloody hard to deliver a Labour government!
Experiences may vary. I never saw the Labour candidate round here & the LD's ran away with it.(I would be astonished if Labour doesn't win but my you are going to be so disappointed in a year or two!
)bhstewie said:
hstewie said:DeejRC said:
Braverman isn’t hated by the electorate, they/we simply don’t understand her.
Yeah Deej that'll be it.They simply don't understand her.
Christ
....try reading what he actually said (I realise it might be a first, but have a go!)Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
Spot on. One of the things that gives me hope is that Labour’s organisation for the locals was first class - genuinely impressive. The Tories have also potentially lost some of their local party capacity by performing so badly at these local elections. We will see - there are certainly going to be a lot of people working bloody hard to deliver a Labour government!
Experiences may vary. I never saw the Labour candidate round here & the LD's ran away with it.(I would be astonished if Labour doesn't win but my you are going to be so disappointed in a year or two!
)Wombat3 said:
The only one not understanding round here Stewie is you! ....try reading what he actually said (I realise it might be a first, but have a go!)
She is a charisma-less, incoherent idiot who blathers on about others taking responsibility but would be blaming the dog before anyone had even caught the tiniest whiff.....try reading what he actually said (I realise it might be a first, but have a go!)There is nothing to understand or misunderstand, she is a moron.
frisbee said:
Wombat3 said:
The only one not understanding round here Stewie is you! ....try reading what he actually said (I realise it might be a first, but have a go!)
She is a charisma-less, incoherent idiot who blathers on about others taking responsibility but would be blaming the dog before anyone had even caught the tiniest whiff.....try reading what he actually said (I realise it might be a first, but have a go!)There is nothing to understand or misunderstand, she is a moron.
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