Probate tips/experience
Discussion
gashead1105 said:
My mother died last year and I've spent the past 18 months as the main executor for the estate under the will. First thing I would do in your position is check if there is a will and who are named the executors under it.
Assuming there is a will, the executors are then responsible for getting probate etc; not the beneficiaries under the estate. They work for free (lucky me) but costs they incur such as legal fees, valuers fees will be paid out of the estate.
My best bit of advice to you, if you are an executor, is get a probate lawyer to sort it out for you. Fair enough you might decide to do it yourself, but if you are administering an estate of any reasonable size, the 10-15k the estate ends up paying is money totally well spent. Then all you have to do is find a valuer to go through your mother's house (f
king miserable experience that is, regardless of what you/your mum will have thought at the time it will mostly be worthless - the valuer valued everything in whole house at less than £1500 and I ended up paying a charity to clear the place out.) Then you have to get probate - that means paying the IHT. Executors are personally liable for it. If you are lucky, you might find that the deceased is sat on a large enough pile of cash to cover the liability, and your lawyer can write to the banks to get that cash released (which they will only do in advance of probate being granted to pay IHT or funeral expenses). Otherwise, you have to take out a loan!!!! Then, once you (the executor) gets probate, you have to sell the house. That has taken over a year in my case but we finally completed 2 weeks ago.
Long and the short of it: find the will. Work out who the executors are. Get probate lawyers.
As you say - depends on the size of the estate. If you go and find out through the various banks etc and get a valuation on the house and it's not hitting the IHT limit (or double if one parent has already passed is the norm) - or indeed even higher IHT limit is there is a will and only children are the beneficiaries then do it yourself - it's really not hard. If it is exceeding the IHT limit(s) then may be worth using a probate specialist. Assuming there is a will, the executors are then responsible for getting probate etc; not the beneficiaries under the estate. They work for free (lucky me) but costs they incur such as legal fees, valuers fees will be paid out of the estate.
My best bit of advice to you, if you are an executor, is get a probate lawyer to sort it out for you. Fair enough you might decide to do it yourself, but if you are administering an estate of any reasonable size, the 10-15k the estate ends up paying is money totally well spent. Then all you have to do is find a valuer to go through your mother's house (f
king miserable experience that is, regardless of what you/your mum will have thought at the time it will mostly be worthless - the valuer valued everything in whole house at less than £1500 and I ended up paying a charity to clear the place out.) Then you have to get probate - that means paying the IHT. Executors are personally liable for it. If you are lucky, you might find that the deceased is sat on a large enough pile of cash to cover the liability, and your lawyer can write to the banks to get that cash released (which they will only do in advance of probate being granted to pay IHT or funeral expenses). Otherwise, you have to take out a loan!!!! Then, once you (the executor) gets probate, you have to sell the house. That has taken over a year in my case but we finally completed 2 weeks ago. Long and the short of it: find the will. Work out who the executors are. Get probate lawyers.
Mr Dendrite said:
When I went through this for my parents’ estate I found contacting the banks etc Breavement service rather than the branch very helpful. They’ve dealt with it all before. A lot of banks will not require probate to release funds up to a certain value £10K, £15K not uncommon. Made dealing with expenses a lot easier.
NS&I were a nightmare, but that was during the pandemic.
The main thing to remember is its value on the date of death, eg share price that day for investments. Not when probate is applied for.
Barclays bereavement service told me that they would block all payments out of the account and we would be unable to access them until probate completed. Leaving my step mum somewhat screwedNS&I were a nightmare, but that was during the pandemic.
The main thing to remember is its value on the date of death, eg share price that day for investments. Not when probate is applied for.
Edited by Mr Dendrite on Friday 6th October 14:47
Check with the bankers - some (don't know if all) banks / building societies will pay funeral & bills & any IHT out of the estate, saving executors the need to fund these items out of their own pockets until probate is granted & the funds released.
Also, probate isn't really that hard. If you've ever done an SA tax return it's OK. Just a bit tedious and obviously if you were close to the deceased it can be a bit emotional.
As already said, the hardest bit is getting a house valuation. Clearly HMRC aren't too keen on DIY valuations or indeed those from a friendly estate agent. Obviously depends on the value of the estate. Seriously consider engaging a RICS surveyor to negotiate a satisfactory / acceptable value with HMRC.
Shares, etc are easy - just look up the values @ DoD on internet. And of course bank accounts are frozen at death so the value is clear,
House contents, as mentioned, are very often worth little. The easy fix is to get local auctioneers to clear the lot (after removing sentimental & anything of value) & send executors hopefully a cheque.
Clothing, etc., can be gifted to charity & gain some relief from IHT via gift aid.
After death, stuff evaporates. Things disappear into thin air. Keep a close watch on who has the house etc. keys.
Also, probate isn't really that hard. If you've ever done an SA tax return it's OK. Just a bit tedious and obviously if you were close to the deceased it can be a bit emotional.
As already said, the hardest bit is getting a house valuation. Clearly HMRC aren't too keen on DIY valuations or indeed those from a friendly estate agent. Obviously depends on the value of the estate. Seriously consider engaging a RICS surveyor to negotiate a satisfactory / acceptable value with HMRC.
Shares, etc are easy - just look up the values @ DoD on internet. And of course bank accounts are frozen at death so the value is clear,
House contents, as mentioned, are very often worth little. The easy fix is to get local auctioneers to clear the lot (after removing sentimental & anything of value) & send executors hopefully a cheque.
Clothing, etc., can be gifted to charity & gain some relief from IHT via gift aid.
After death, stuff evaporates. Things disappear into thin air. Keep a close watch on who has the house etc. keys.
Mr E said:
Mr Dendrite said:
When I went through this for my parents’ estate I found contacting the banks etc Breavement service rather than the branch very helpful. They’ve dealt with it all before. A lot of banks will not require probate to release funds up to a certain value £10K, £15K not uncommon. Made dealing with expenses a lot easier.
NS&I were a nightmare, but that was during the pandemic.
The main thing to remember is its value on the date of death, eg share price that day for investments. Not when probate is applied for.
Barclays bereavement service told me that they would block all payments out of the account and we would be unable to access them until probate completed. Leaving my step mum somewhat screwedNS&I were a nightmare, but that was during the pandemic.
The main thing to remember is its value on the date of death, eg share price that day for investments. Not when probate is applied for.
Edited by Mr Dendrite on Friday 6th October 14:47
Mr E said:
Thread revival/bump
I’m going through this. Death cert received today
I understand that we need to value the estate before applying for probate.
Will various financial institutions give executors details of savings/accounts without probate? If not, how does one value the estate?
Get three estate agents in to value. Take an average of the three as its value for probate valuation.I’m going through this. Death cert received today
I understand that we need to value the estate before applying for probate.
Will various financial institutions give executors details of savings/accounts without probate? If not, how does one value the estate?
Banks will give details to the executor and will start the ball rolling however most will ask to see the will. Some are easier to deal with than others. Halifax were superb and released funds on receiving the death certificate number. Leeds BS basically wanted to see the body before releasing funds and all with different limits on what they’ll release without probate.
Always go via their bereavement dept first and they will liaise with branches to view certificates or wills. They’ve heard it all and will guide you through sympathetically. They will also lock down accounts as soon as they’re notified but they will release funds for funeral expenses.
Use the ‘Tell us once’ service for dealing with government stuff like pensions, etc.
Most estates are pretty straightforward to value unless there’s something like antiques or expensive jewellery or classic cars to add. Ordinary cars are dead easy - WBAC will do and most personal possessions like furniture and clothes are pretty worthless unfortunately.
Probate forms are straightforward but it can take a while to finally get probate. Probate solicitors can be handy for complicated estates but they can be slow unless you do the legwork for them.
Try and get a few copies of the death certificate if possible as otherwise you’ll be waiting for one institution to return it before sending it off to another.
Mail redirect to your house will make things easier and there’s bound to some company you’ve forgot to contact who’ll be writing to the deceased complaining that the direct debit has bounced.
Keep a bank account clear for monies to arrive. Some say you need a special executor account but that’s overkill. A normal bank account in the executors name is perfectly fine and keep a simple set of accounts of all your expenses.
I’d pay a solicitor, who have a contact/relationship
Eg
Mil passed in Feb
Forms filled in
Massive delays. Amateurs at the back of the queue ?
One joint executor can’t do it so did the form to back out in May
Amateur executor overlooked the reserve..
Chased up a few times. Nightmare to get hold of.
Why isn’t the reserve now a joint executor, she doesn’t want to!
Filled in another form
No doubt a few more months until they respond / house can be sold
I’ll employ a professional when my mother keels over
Eg
Mil passed in Feb
Forms filled in
Massive delays. Amateurs at the back of the queue ?
One joint executor can’t do it so did the form to back out in May
Amateur executor overlooked the reserve..
Chased up a few times. Nightmare to get hold of.
Why isn’t the reserve now a joint executor, she doesn’t want to!
Filled in another form
No doubt a few more months until they respond / house can be sold
I’ll employ a professional when my mother keels over
My MiL passed June 2022.
Wife (& siblings) were named executors: siblings signed a letter she wrote allowing her to be the sole executor.
Paperwork took her a few months to gather together (a large number of accounts, a months holiday during it, etc etc).
Probate applied for Nov22. Takes up to 16 weeks, and indeed did take about that.
Steps all outlined at https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death
Use Tell Us Once service to deal with most non-banking things
Banks have an equivalent death notification service.
Plenty of form filling….some banks transferred money before probate, others needed that first.
Took time, but was a cathartic experience for all the siblings…..gave time to properly clear house (currently mostly empty & with offer).
Of course you can pay a chunk of money for a solicitor to do it if you want, & if you were busy working, then perhaps that makes sense, but DIY can save a five-figure sum.
Wife (& siblings) were named executors: siblings signed a letter she wrote allowing her to be the sole executor.
Paperwork took her a few months to gather together (a large number of accounts, a months holiday during it, etc etc).
Probate applied for Nov22. Takes up to 16 weeks, and indeed did take about that.
Steps all outlined at https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death
Use Tell Us Once service to deal with most non-banking things
Banks have an equivalent death notification service.
Plenty of form filling….some banks transferred money before probate, others needed that first.
Took time, but was a cathartic experience for all the siblings…..gave time to properly clear house (currently mostly empty & with offer).
Of course you can pay a chunk of money for a solicitor to do it if you want, & if you were busy working, then perhaps that makes sense, but DIY can save a five-figure sum.
valiant said:
Get three estate agents in to value. Take an average of the three as its value for probate valuation.
Banks will give details to the executor and will start the ball rolling however most will ask to see the will. Some are easier to deal with than others. Halifax were superb and released funds on receiving the death certificate number. Leeds BS basically wanted to see the body before releasing funds and all with different limits on what they’ll release without probate.
Always go via their bereavement dept first and they will liaise with branches to view certificates or wills. They’ve heard it all and will guide you through sympathetically. They will also lock down accounts as soon as they’re notified but they will release funds for funeral expenses.
Use the ‘Tell us once’ service for dealing with government stuff like pensions, etc.
Most estates are pretty straightforward to value unless there’s something like antiques or expensive jewellery or classic cars to add. Ordinary cars are dead easy - WBAC will do and most personal possessions like furniture and clothes are pretty worthless unfortunately.
Probate forms are straightforward but it can take a while to finally get probate. Probate solicitors can be handy for complicated estates but they can be slow unless you do the legwork for them.
Try and get a few copies of the death certificate if possible as otherwise you’ll be waiting for one institution to return it before sending it off to another.
Mail redirect to your house will make things easier and there’s bound to some company you’ve forgot to contact who’ll be writing to the deceased complaining that the direct debit has bounced.
Keep a bank account clear for monies to arrive. Some say you need a special executor account but that’s overkill. A normal bank account in the executors name is perfectly fine and keep a simple set of accounts of all your expenses.
How do you ensure that an estate agent is giving a valuation based on what it will likely sell for rather than what they like you to think you could optimistically get? That is, won't they value higher to entice you to go with them rather than their competitors but eventually sell for a much lower price?Banks will give details to the executor and will start the ball rolling however most will ask to see the will. Some are easier to deal with than others. Halifax were superb and released funds on receiving the death certificate number. Leeds BS basically wanted to see the body before releasing funds and all with different limits on what they’ll release without probate.
Always go via their bereavement dept first and they will liaise with branches to view certificates or wills. They’ve heard it all and will guide you through sympathetically. They will also lock down accounts as soon as they’re notified but they will release funds for funeral expenses.
Use the ‘Tell us once’ service for dealing with government stuff like pensions, etc.
Most estates are pretty straightforward to value unless there’s something like antiques or expensive jewellery or classic cars to add. Ordinary cars are dead easy - WBAC will do and most personal possessions like furniture and clothes are pretty worthless unfortunately.
Probate forms are straightforward but it can take a while to finally get probate. Probate solicitors can be handy for complicated estates but they can be slow unless you do the legwork for them.
Try and get a few copies of the death certificate if possible as otherwise you’ll be waiting for one institution to return it before sending it off to another.
Mail redirect to your house will make things easier and there’s bound to some company you’ve forgot to contact who’ll be writing to the deceased complaining that the direct debit has bounced.
Keep a bank account clear for monies to arrive. Some say you need a special executor account but that’s overkill. A normal bank account in the executors name is perfectly fine and keep a simple set of accounts of all your expenses.
If in a case that a husband passes away and leaves everything to his wife then would a DIY valuation suffice since there is no IHT to pay?
I am still waiting for the grant of probate, in case anyone is interested! So be prepared for delays.
I was told 20 weeks but it is now a month past that. Probate office say we should get it before Xmas...
I got a local solicitor to do it in the end. DIY looked fairly doable but I just didn't want to do it. I am happy I made the right choice for me.
I was told 20 weeks but it is now a month past that. Probate office say we should get it before Xmas...
I got a local solicitor to do it in the end. DIY looked fairly doable but I just didn't want to do it. I am happy I made the right choice for me.
eliot said:
As others have said, if there’s a will and the estate is simple - do it yourself, because like the pro’s can prey on you at an emotional time.
Whereas I chose a solicitor for precisely the same reason;)I think the point is that you can do DIY if it's a simple estate, but do you want to? Some may find it helpful or cathartic, others will not. No right or wrong choice.
leef44 said:
If in a case that a husband passes away and leaves everything to his wife then would a DIY valuation suffice since there is no IHT to pay?
I don’t think that Probate is typically needed in this caseI did have a couple of things to deal with where Probate was mentioned (and refusal to allow access or transfer funds as a result) but after evidencing via the will that I was sole beneficiary and executor I was allowed to proceed without it.
dontlookdown said:
I am still waiting for the grant of probate, in case anyone is interested! So be prepared for delays.
I was told 20 weeks but it is now a month past that. Probate office say we should get it before Xmas...
I got a local solicitor to do it in the end. DIY looked fairly doable but I just didn't want to do it. I am happy I made the right choice for me.
That’s quite interesting.I was told 20 weeks but it is now a month past that. Probate office say we should get it before Xmas...
I got a local solicitor to do it in the end. DIY looked fairly doable but I just didn't want to do it. I am happy I made the right choice for me.
Are you saying that from the point where your solicitor actually applied for probate, it has taken 24 weeks and a further 10-12 expected?
Or from the point you appointed the solicitor?
One of the siblings in our case (see times stated above) had suggested probate would have been faster to get had they paid to use a solicitor.
Aside from suggesting she could give up a 5-figure portion of her share to my wife if she wanted to pretend they had, your comment makes it feel like probate can be faster for DIY than using your solicitor.
I’m not suggesting you didn’t make the right decision - it sounds like you know you’ve done the right thing.
FWIW, we had a friend who has been actively working recently on ‘speeding up’ the online process for applying for probate. If the time you state is from the point your solicitor applied for it, then either something has gone very wrong in that process, or perhaps your solicitor has misled you as to what is going on. According to the government, you should get it within 16 weeks of applying.
mikeiow said:
That’s quite interesting.
Are you saying that from the point where your solicitor actually applied for probate, it has taken 24 weeks and a further 10-12 expected?
Or from the point you appointed the solicitor?
One of the siblings in our case (see times stated above) had suggested probate would have been faster to get had they paid to use a solicitor.
Aside from suggesting she could give up a 5-figure portion of her share to my wife if she wanted to pretend they had, your comment makes it feel like probate can be faster for DIY than using your solicitor.
I’m not suggesting you didn’t make the right decision - it sounds like you know you’ve done the right thing.
FWIW, we had a friend who has been actively working recently on ‘speeding up’ the online process for applying for probate. If the time you state is from the point your solicitor applied for it, then either something has gone very wrong in that process, or perhaps your solicitor has misled you as to what is going on. According to the government, you should get it within 16 weeks of applying.
That's from the date the application was submitted in May. The probate office actually say we should get it in another month, the before Xmas bit is my own interpretation based on what has happened already;) Are you saying that from the point where your solicitor actually applied for probate, it has taken 24 weeks and a further 10-12 expected?
Or from the point you appointed the solicitor?
One of the siblings in our case (see times stated above) had suggested probate would have been faster to get had they paid to use a solicitor.
Aside from suggesting she could give up a 5-figure portion of her share to my wife if she wanted to pretend they had, your comment makes it feel like probate can be faster for DIY than using your solicitor.
I’m not suggesting you didn’t make the right decision - it sounds like you know you’ve done the right thing.
FWIW, we had a friend who has been actively working recently on ‘speeding up’ the online process for applying for probate. If the time you state is from the point your solicitor applied for it, then either something has gone very wrong in that process, or perhaps your solicitor has misled you as to what is going on. According to the government, you should get it within 16 weeks of applying.
dontlookdown said:
That's from the date the application was submitted in May. The probate office actually say we should get it in another month, the before Xmas bit is my own interpretation based on what has happened already;)
Yikes.Maybe the solicitor had to go back with missing information? Has the solicitor given you any explanation for the delays?
Given what our friend told us and what that government page states, you are heading for 10 weeks more than it should be
Hope things get sorted out, & of course, sorry for the loss of your mum.
As you suggested above, the process of DIY was quite cathartic for MrsMikeIOW: as she put it, her Scottish father would never have forgiven her for paying someone a large chunk when she was capable of doing it herself, but it is indeed a large chunk of time and paperwork….we lost the use of the pool table due to the weight of papers spread out on it!
mikeiow said:
dontlookdown said:
That's from the date the application was submitted in May. The probate office actually say we should get it in another month, the before Xmas bit is my own interpretation based on what has happened already;)
Yikes.Maybe the solicitor had to go back with missing information? Has the solicitor given you any explanation for the delays?
Given what our friend told us and what that government page states, you are heading for 10 weeks more than it should be
Hope things get sorted out, & of course, sorry for the loss of your mum.
As you suggested above, the process of DIY was quite cathartic for MrsMikeIOW: as she put it, her Scottish father would never have forgiven her for paying someone a large chunk when she was capable of doing it herself, but it is indeed a large chunk of time and paperwork….we lost the use of the pool table due to the weight of papers spread out on it!
Grief takes people on different ways doesn't it? I am glad your Mrs found it helped her.
LastPoster said:
leef44 said:
If in a case that a husband passes away and leaves everything to his wife then would a DIY valuation suffice since there is no IHT to pay?
I don’t think that Probate is typically needed in this caseI did have a couple of things to deal with where Probate was mentioned (and refusal to allow access or transfer funds as a result) but after evidencing via the will that I was sole beneficiary and executor I was allowed to proceed without it.
Also our house is only in my name because we got married after I bought the house so was wondering whether that can get a bit messy if I go first.
My father passed away more than two decades ago, intestate. I remember it was a nightmare sorting his affairs out but I remember it only took about a month to sort out the probate back then. It's a bit worrying hearing that this now takes four to five months.
leef44 said:
LastPoster said:
leef44 said:
If in a case that a husband passes away and leaves everything to his wife then would a DIY valuation suffice since there is no IHT to pay?
I don’t think that Probate is typically needed in this caseI did have a couple of things to deal with where Probate was mentioned (and refusal to allow access or transfer funds as a result) but after evidencing via the will that I was sole beneficiary and executor I was allowed to proceed without it.
Also our house is only in my name because we got married after I bought the house so was wondering whether that can get a bit messy if I go first.
My father passed away more than two decades ago, intestate. I remember it was a nightmare sorting his affairs out but I remember it only took about a month to sort out the probate back then. It's a bit worrying hearing that this now takes four to five months.
The issue on my side was that the house was registered as 'tenants in common', this didn't make any sense as we were both on first marriages, kids were both of ours and everything we owned came after marriage. It should have been joint tenants. I don't know if we made a mistake instructing the solicitor (I find the terms confusing but would have expected an 'are you sure?' conversation), the solicitor made a mistake on the forms or if the Land Registry made a mistake. The upshot was that the mortgage company would not take my wife's name off the mortgage and the Land Registry would not remove her name (or I suppose her estate) from the deeds.
Proving I was sole beneficiary resolved the situation but if for example, my wife had decided to leave a small % of her estate to someone like an old friend then it could have been a mess.
Edited by LastPoster on Sunday 8th October 19:23
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