An epidemic of insanely slow drivers
Discussion
I think one of the bigger and often overlooked reasons as to excessively slow drivers is eyesight. I work in the eye world and it's concerning how many people just barely scratch the driving standard, or meet the driving standard with specs but often don't bother to use them, or lose them and carry on without buying a new pair. The 6/12 driving line is extremely lenient as well IMO, I think 6/10 is more realistic. HGV/driving instructor/train drivers all have much higher vision standards for good reason.
And even if someone is getting 6/10, so many people have cataracts which can cause unsafe levels of glare. Think about driving with a misted windscreen.
And even if someone is getting 6/10, so many people have cataracts which can cause unsafe levels of glare. Think about driving with a misted windscreen.
Acuity30 said:
I think one of the bigger and often overlooked reasons as to excessively slow drivers is eyesight. I work in the eye world and it's concerning how many people just barely scratch the driving standard, or meet the driving standard with specs but often don't bother to use them, or lose them and carry on without buying a new pair. The 6/12 driving line is extremely lenient as well IMO, I think 6/10 is more realistic. HGV/driving instructor/train drivers all have much higher vision standards for good reason.
And even if someone is getting 6/10, so many people have cataracts which can cause unsafe levels of glare. Think about driving with a misted windscreen.
You have to be pretty badly impaired to get cataract treatment on the NHS.And even if someone is getting 6/10, so many people have cataracts which can cause unsafe levels of glare. Think about driving with a misted windscreen.
And, as it’s a gradual process, there will be people with iffy eyesight around, night vision especially, who haven’t even noticed its onset.
KTMsm said:
Bought a new car today, trailering it home and I was held up on an NSL by some idiot in a Peugeot doing 40 - overtook him up the inside, on an island
Then I was held up by a fat bloke on a sports bike
If you can't do 60 on an NSL on a 1000cc bike, it's time to give up
I was going to raise this point. It feels like there are more slow drivers but as it's gone from a high number to higher number it's hard to tell how much worse it really is. Bikes, on the other hand, I don't recall ever getting held up by, aside from the odd Scooter that's ventured out of an urban area for the first time in half a year. Now I seem to fairly regularly get held up by them country side a and b roads I.E what should be highly enjoyable riding roads; it's truly bizarre. Then I was held up by a fat bloke on a sports bike
If you can't do 60 on an NSL on a 1000cc bike, it's time to give up
Pica-Pica said:
My biggest issue is those in FFRRs that need three feet between them and the hedge on narrow lanes. Worst still, they are NEVER capable of driving on grass verges, oh no.
Ha seen plenty of that today up around Stanage Edge. Townies out in their P+J not used to narrow country roads. A menace.Pan Pan Pan said:
Foss62 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Especially from the ones who try to make out, that anyone who does not want to dawdle, and who wants to travel legally at the posted limits, is some kind of speed freak.
Where are these posts? I can’t recall anyone on this entire thread saying this, and bearing in mind the nature of the forum I doubt that there are any contributors to this discussion who don’t regularly ‘stretch’ the posted limits.All that those arguing against you are pointing out, is that constant travel at posted speed limits at all times is neither possible nor particularly desirable. Everyone, including you, will be judged a ‘dawdler’ at some point, by someone and providing you are following HC rules in interactions with other vehicles, there is no problem with that.
Where are the posts which stated constant travel at the posted limit at all times is possible? You seem to be guilty of doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.
I do however disagree with the idea that travelling at the posted limit is not particularly desirable. It is just that owing to road, visibility, weather, and traffic conditions it is not always possible, but at least `trying' to travel at the posted limit, is always highly desirable.
What is particularly offensive, is people deliberately dawdling, and holding up huge numbers of other road users, when travelling at the posted limit is entirely possible, but they just don't care about the effect that their dawdling has on other road users.
I don’t agree that driving at the posted limit is in anyway ‘desirable’, nor is it necessarily undesirable. For that matter, driving above the posted limit is not necessarily a terrible crime (and the leeway and sentences given in many cases - SACs etc.- tend to reflect that).
What I really struggle with is the belief that you and a few others seem to have that people should at all times strive to travel at the posted limit. I can think of numerous ‘challenging’ NSL roads where I would generally try this on my own in my own car, but never subject passengers to it, and certainly wouldn’t deem it appropriate or enjoyable in my wife’s 15 year old Toyota. Equally, if running early for a meeting, or picking up someone from a station with a 15 minute pick up zone I wouldn’t go for every overtake and would be happy to drive at 50 instead of 60. This to me, is normal behaviour.
The ‘villains’ are not people travelling at certain speeds, but people who do not follow the accepted rules and etiquette in interactions with other vehicles. By all means drive at 40 or 50 in an NSL, but at the same time make it as easy as possible for others to overtake.
Dark85 said:
I was going to raise this point. It feels like there are more slow drivers but as it's gone from a high number to higher number it's hard to tell how much worse it really is. Bikes, on the other hand, I don't recall ever getting held up by, aside from the odd Scooter that's ventured out of an urban area for the first time in half a year. Now I seem to fairly regularly get held up by them country side a and b roads I.E what should be highly enjoyable riding roads; it's truly bizarre.
Bikes it has been everywhere since Direct Access, IMHO.Been noticing it for ages. Normally on my bike or in my car with something supersports in front of me. I immediately expect them to tear off from the lights and I end up nearly ramming them as they've paddled away as slow as you like
This whole bank holiday weekend has been a nightmare around Norfolk, with tractors, caravans, van-life types and the always popular "OAP doing 40mph in an NSL" and all of them doing this for miles after mile, blocking the road behind them which prevents people from leaving side streets onto the main roads (or leaving the main road onto a side street) due to the solid mass of a "35-40mph in an NSL" moving traffic jam.
Foss62 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Foss62 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Especially from the ones who try to make out, that anyone who does not want to dawdle, and who wants to travel legally at the posted limits, is some kind of speed freak.
Where are these posts? I can’t recall anyone on this entire thread saying this, and bearing in mind the nature of the forum I doubt that there are any contributors to this discussion who don’t regularly ‘stretch’ the posted limits.All that those arguing against you are pointing out, is that constant travel at posted speed limits at all times is neither possible nor particularly desirable. Everyone, including you, will be judged a ‘dawdler’ at some point, by someone and providing you are following HC rules in interactions with other vehicles, there is no problem with that.
Where are the posts which stated constant travel at the posted limit at all times is possible? You seem to be guilty of doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.
I do however disagree with the idea that travelling at the posted limit is not particularly desirable. It is just that owing to road, visibility, weather, and traffic conditions it is not always possible, but at least `trying' to travel at the posted limit, is always highly desirable.
What is particularly offensive, is people deliberately dawdling, and holding up huge numbers of other road users, when travelling at the posted limit is entirely possible, but they just don't care about the effect that their dawdling has on other road users.
I don’t agree that driving at the posted limit is in anyway ‘desirable’, nor is it necessarily undesirable. For that matter, driving above the posted limit is not necessarily a terrible crime (and the leeway and sentences given in many cases - SACs etc.- tend to reflect that).
What I really struggle with is the belief that you and a few others seem to have that people should at all times strive to travel at the posted limit. I can think of numerous ‘challenging’ NSL roads where I would generally try this on my own in my own car, but never subject passengers to it, and certainly wouldn’t deem it appropriate or enjoyable in my wife’s 15 year old Toyota. Equally, if running early for a meeting, or picking up someone from a station with a 15 minute pick up zone I wouldn’t go for every overtake and would be happy to drive at 50 instead of 60. This to me, is normal behaviour.
The ‘villains’ are not people travelling at certain speeds, but people who do not follow the accepted rules and etiquette in interactions with other vehicles. By all means drive at 40 or 50 in an NSL, but at the same time make it as easy as possible for others to overtake.
However if one is doing 40 on a more useable NSL where passing is difficult or dangerous, just because one in no hurry oneself, then one is driving selfishly imho.
Monkeylegend said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Where are the posts which stated constant travel at the posted limit at all times is possible? You seem to be guilty of doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.
I do however disagree with the idea that travelling at the posted limit is not particularly desirable. It is just that owing to road, visibility, weather, and traffic conditions it is not always possible, but at least `trying' to travel at the posted limit, is always highly desirable.
What is particularly offensive, is people deliberately dawdling, and holding up huge numbers of other road users, when travelling at the posted limit is entirely possible, but they just don't care about the effect that their dawdling has on other road users.
M4cruiser said:
Foss62 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Especially from the ones who try to make out, that anyone who does not want to dawdle, and who wants to travel legally at the posted limits, is some kind of speed freak.
Where are these posts? I can’t recall anyone on this entire thread saying this, and bearing in mind the nature of the forum I doubt that there are any contributors to this discussion who don’t regularly ‘stretch’ the posted limits.All that those arguing against you are pointing out, is that constant travel at posted speed limits at all times is neither possible nor particularly desirable. Everyone, including you, will be judged a ‘dawdler’ at some point, by someone and providing you are following HC rules in interactions with other vehicles, there is no problem with that.
The Irony is, that good cross country progress at the posted limits can be made where people do so. Instead they must contend with those who want to either exceed or dawdle at well below the posted limits, Usually for no `good' reason.
Mr Miata said:
M4cruiser said:
There are people who seem to think it's ok to go 15% faster than the 70 limit (86mph) yet won't accept that others may want to go 15% slower than the 70 limit (59mph). Such hypocrisy.
I don’t know why you would want to go 15% slower in perfectly good conditions? I wonder if those who do, wonder why they cant see any car in front of them yet if they were to check their mirrors they’d see there’s a literally 10 cars bumper-to-bumper behind them?
When they complain that sombody dangerously overtook them (in their opinion) do they ever consider it’s themselves who are the problem, by driving at 40 mph in a 60 limit?
theplayingmantis said:
Acuity30 said:
Very entertaining read however I think you're wrong in saying it's just blokes. I've seen a lot of women do similar and just having poor road manners. Many times I've been waiting to merge into a slow moving lane from a petrol station for example and seen women speed up and not allow me out. Only to overtake them further up the road when it turns into dual carriageway.
And usually rather fat unattractive women ime. Pan Pan Pan said:
Mr Miata said:
M4cruiser said:
There are people who seem to think it's ok to go 15% faster than the 70 limit (86mph) yet won't accept that others may want to go 15% slower than the 70 limit (59mph). Such hypocrisy.
I don’t know why you would want to go 15% slower in perfectly good conditions? I wonder if those who do, wonder why they cant see any car in front of them yet if they were to check their mirrors they’d see there’s a literally 10 cars bumper-to-bumper behind them?
When they complain that sombody dangerously overtook them (in their opinion) do they ever consider it’s themselves who are the problem, by driving at 40 mph in a 60 limit?
The previous comment is a bit jumbled. Most car drivers who are well below the limit on 70mph roads are driving taxis (this is easy to observe), and balancing fuel economy with job timing - something which makes a lot of sense financially with the large mileages they cover. As long as they are not keeping lorries off their limiters then they are doing no harm. They won't generally have ten cars behind them bumper to bumper in the inside lane. On 60 limit single carriageways where this can happen, it's generally down to the incompetence (or just laziness) of some members of the ten car convoy rather than the slow driver per se.
I was driving along the Thames riverside from the M25 J13 toward Windsor over the weekend. The road has historically been a 50, but several years ago was reduced to a 40. Anyway I was doing my 40 when someone in a Mercedes pulled out from one of the side roads right in front of me, forcing me to brake and then they did not accelerate past 34mph. Not super slow but very annoying when there was no reason for this slowness. This road has double white lines and traffic islands along its entire length so there's no overtaking possible. But as someone who finds speed limits far too low, I always try to drive at the maximum speed allowed unless there's a reason not to. Which is what you're supposed to do. I'm not interested in hearing that the limit is a limit and not a target. There's a reason you can fail your driving test for holding up traffic and driving unnecessarily slowly. This driver would have scored a major fault for pulling out in front of another vehicle, and a minor for holding up traffic.
swisstoni said:
Of course there are some sections of NSLs where doing 60 or even 50 would be crazy.
However if one is doing 40 on a more useable NSL where passing is difficult or dangerous, just because one in no hurry oneself, then one is driving selfishly imho.
To an extent I agree, but it's very dependent on circumstances. Obviously if there is no other traffic in sight behind it's reasonable to drive at whatever speed you want. If you find yourself holding someone up at some point then trying to judge the speed they might want to travel at might not be the best option (and could even be seen as confrontational). A left signal and slowing further could be the best course of action.However if one is doing 40 on a more useable NSL where passing is difficult or dangerous, just because one in no hurry oneself, then one is driving selfishly imho.
DonkeyApple said:
theplayingmantis said:
And usually rather fat unattractive women ime.
They're the ones who drive on the wrong side of the road on blind bends around here. I think they're confusing tarmac with cake and just want it all. I did learn that they can get very angry should you try to point out that the road isn't cake and they can't have it all. This was several years ago and she may still be back there shouting. She had the reserves in for a long siege. Maybe if she lost weight she would feel better about herself and not seek to 'road queen' others.
M4cruiser said:
There are people who seem to think it's ok to go 15% faster than the 70 limit (86mph) yet won't accept that others may want to go 15% slower than the 70 limit (59mph). Such hypocrisy.
I generally want to drive at twice the limit - the only reason I don't is because I don't want a jail sentence or banIt's rarely because I'm late, I just enjoy driving quickly
I never drive slowly, if I have 30 minutes to spare I don't go and sit in my car on the drive
If I get stuck behind some dawdling fool I can feel my life being drained out of me - why do they get to be so selfish as to delay tens / hundreds of people every time they drive
How are you defining hypocrisy - because I'm not forcing them to drive at double the speed limit - although if I could buy a remote control that could do that - I might !
Pan Pan Pan said:
theplayingmantis said:
Acuity30 said:
Very entertaining read however I think you're wrong in saying it's just blokes. I've seen a lot of women do similar and just having poor road manners. Many times I've been waiting to merge into a slow moving lane from a petrol station for example and seen women speed up and not allow me out. Only to overtake them further up the road when it turns into dual carriageway.
And usually rather fat unattractive women ime. Typical stereotype from those of you who believe they are gods gift to driving when describing those they think are not worthy of holding a driving licence.
It's as if you feel the need to justify what you are saying by using derogatory language about others.
I bet a lot of you also post in the council thread in a similar way
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