RE: BMW M3 vs Alpina B3 vs BMW M340i

[E90_M3Ross]

And yet the Alpina won't see even 5% the quantity of the M3....

[Tindersticks]

cerb4.5lee said:

Alpina have never really understood where they sit in the marketplace

Utter nonsense.

[E90_M3Ross]

Tindersticks said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Alpina have never really understood where they sit in the marketplace

Utter nonsense.

Agree, they understand it, it's just such a small niche they just sell hardly any.

[Ray_Aber]

"Oaf Chariot" - I love that!

Alpina for me. That chrome, derided elsewhere, adds class and distinction, as do the silver wheels. Both green and blue examples below look magnificent.

If I could convince myself that the car would fit two decent sized dogs in the boot, I'd get one. In the meantime, I've got my G31 540i which gives me a hint of what these must be like. Only a hint, mind.

I'll never buy an M3 or M4. See the first line of this comment for my views - although I am glad they exist, even if they are not to my taste.

PS Excellent article, although like many, I watched the video months ago.

[Gigamoons]

jon-yprpe said:

Great to read Andrew Frankel here. The quality of the writing shines through.

Yup, couldn’t agree more.

I’d take the 340i, based on its ability / value equation.

As wonderful as the Alpina is, for me it demonstrates perfectly the law of diminishing returns. The extra engine, chassis and interior know-how & execution costs. The end result is certainly a better car, but +30% better? No, not for me and my wallet. But good for those who decide it is.

The M3 capabilities I just don’t need or particularly want in a family car. Sounds like it steps too far away from the 3 series core role in life. Again though, fantastic bmw make it to cater for this market. Personally though I’d use the savings for a proper raw little sports car for solo hoons and track days.

[Robertb]

Baldchap said:

It hasn't died *yet*, but obviously the writing is well and truly on the wall.

I was talking to an Alpina representative who, interestingly, said they are not going to blather the brand everywhere like they do M logos, rather Alpina will be a Maybach competitor based on the 7 series platform.

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

Edited by Baldchap on Monday 6th May 07:19

Please no. The 7 series is awful looking even by modern BMW standards, no amount of Alpinarising will fix that.

Besides, don’t BMW own RR as a luxury brand?

I’d far rather the Alpina name just died rather than ending up on the side of mundane products as an up-spec trim, like Ghia or Vignale.

[pcws1979]

CDP said:

I just looked up the weight of a Tesla Model 3:

1,765 to 1,851 kg

So less than the 3 series.

It is astonishing that BMW have made the things so heavy.

That's because Tesla's are not built to last, BMW's are.

[pcws1979]

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

[E90_M3Ross]

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

[cerb4.5lee]

E90_M3Ross said:

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

That is all I'm trying to get at as well Ross...when I say that Alpina don't really know what they want to be/who they're aimed at/their marketplace.

You either want loud and shouty(M car), or you want go under the radar(Alpina). Yet Alpina insist on massive wheels/in your face chrome, and daft decals/stickers, so it just doesn't make sense/add up to me really.

[Lowtimer]

evojam said:

Alpina for me but those tyres and alloys would'nt last a week with the current state of UK roads.

Around here, definitely risky. Does anyone know if the standard M340i 18" will fit over the brakes of the Alpina? Would seem a bit safer, especially in winter

[Baldchap]

Lowtimer said:

evojam said:

Alpina for me but those tyres and alloys would'nt last a week with the current state of UK roads.

Around here, definitely risky. Does anyone know if the standard M340i 18" will fit over the brakes of the Alpina? Would seem a bit safer, especially in winter

They honestly aren't an issue.

I have two sets, winters and summers. Neither have a mark on them after 20,000 miles.

[B10]

The B3 is so much nicer with the chrome grille and nice alloys...much more old money than the boy racer M3 and 340. The M3's bug bunny grille is annoying

[BSSBMW]

cerb4.5lee said:

E90_M3Ross said:

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

That is all I'm trying to get at as well Ross...when I say that Alpina don't really know what they want to be/who they're aimed at/their marketplace.

You either want loud and shouty(M car), or you want go under the radar(Alpina). Yet Alpina insist on massive wheels/in your face chrome, and daft decals/stickers, so it just doesn't make sense/add up to me really.

Historically if you compare the equivalent M model to its Alpina alternative, the Alpina version is usually based on the less sporty SE version of the model so more subtle bumpers, skirts etc and i the case of the 3 series, no blistered wide wheel arches.

Yes the Alpina's usually have large wheels but in most cases no bigger than optional M sport or standard fit M power wheels.

The decal set has always been optional an is an Alpina tradition that goes all the way back to the 70's.

Admittedly the big chrome grill on the G2x B3 are quite in your face but thats a G2x model specific thing, not Alpina. Black grills are optional.

Where people make comparisons and declare Alpinas as being more classy, under the radar is that the don't have big scoops, vents, wide arches, overt sportier styling the M cars do.

As for Alpina not knowing their market place or what they want to be? They have known exactly what they are for decades, producers of exclusive automobiles for people who appreciate their models refined effortless performance.

Think of them akin the a Bavarian Jaguar!

And for those who think they are dead now they have "sold out" to BMW, that is far from the truth! With the stupid European legislation for ban combustion engine cars it made it difficult for them to continue to develop models in the future so after 2025 they will continue to trade as "Alpina Classic" and focus looking after the back cataloge of cars as well as using their experitse and engineering facilities to help BMW with product development, something they have done for some time.

https://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/tools/alpina...

https://www.alpina-engineering.de/

I love Alpina's, have done for as long as I can remember, on my 11th one now and am about to place an order for a G21 B3 touring after the sale of my F82 M4. I've also been fortunate enough to have owned plenty of M power BMW's often owning the Alpina equivalents at the same time so have drawn direct comparisons during ownership.

E39 M5 and B10 V8
E46 M3 and B3 3.3
E34 M5 3.6 and B10 Biturbo
E30 M3 and C2 2.7

Like almost every article written or filmed that draw direct comparison, in general Alpina just make for a better road car plus the exclusivity is partly what makes them feel that bit more special.

Having said that, certain Alpina models have sold in big numbers (for Alpina), the E39 B10 models spring to mind and even the current G2x B3 and D3 have proved very popular sellers with over 2000 produced worldwide so far.

[E90_M3Ross]

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

How is the Alpina more subtle here, for example?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/file...
It even says "biturbo" on the back. Hardly subtle.

[BSSBMW]

E90_M3Ross said:

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

How is the Alpina more subtle here, for example?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/file...
It even says "biturbo" on the back. Hardly subtle.

My current daily is an E39 B10 V8, the badges are no bigger than a 540i badge.

And as for that F90 M5 vs Alpina B5, look past the badges and look at the M5's diffuser and lower rear bumper arangement.

You can option debadge on an Alpina by the way.

[E90_M3Ross]

BSSBMW said:

E90_M3Ross said:

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

How is the Alpina more subtle here, for example?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/file...
It even says "biturbo" on the back. Hardly subtle.

My current daily is an E39 B10 V8, the badges are no bigger than a 540i badge.

And as for that F90 M5 vs Alpina B5, look past the badges and look at the M5's diffuser and lower rear bumper arangement.

You can option debadge on an Alpina by the way.

You can debadge on the M5 too. Every Alpina I've ever seen has had the decals etc. Nice cars, yes, subtle though? Not in my humble opinion.

[andy-integrale]

E90_M3Ross said:

BSSBMW said:

E90_M3Ross said:

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

How is the Alpina more subtle here, for example?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/file...
It even says "biturbo" on the back. Hardly subtle.

My current daily is an E39 B10 V8, the badges are no bigger than a 540i badge.

And as for that F90 M5 vs Alpina B5, look past the badges and look at the M5's diffuser and lower rear bumper arangement.

You can option debadge on an Alpina by the way.

You can debadge on the M5 too. Every Alpina I've ever seen has had the decals etc. Nice cars, yes, subtle though? Not in my humble opinion.

Not sure how much more subtle a 186 MPH / 3.7 to 60 car can be.

https://youtu.be/8YEX6uB_A08?si=CmIlsUxP2tHPUpN-

[bigyoungdave]

CDP said:

I just looked up the weight of a Tesla Model 3:

1,765 to 1,851 kg

So less than the 3 series.

It is astonishing that BMW have made the things so heavy.

Yes I was initially very surprised/impressed by how light the model 3 was for an EV. Then I was driven in the back of one being used as a taxi and realised that they have achieved this low weight through woeful build quality and very poor refinement. Sadly, circa 1900kg is par for the course now for an estate built to quality

[BSSBMW]

E90_M3Ross said:

BSSBMW said:

E90_M3Ross said:

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

How is the Alpina more subtle here, for example?

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/file...
It even says "biturbo" on the back. Hardly subtle.

My current daily is an E39 B10 V8, the badges are no bigger than a 540i badge.

And as for that F90 M5 vs Alpina B5, look past the badges and look at the M5's diffuser and lower rear bumper arangement.

You can option debadge on an Alpina by the way.

You can debadge on the M5 too. Every Alpina I've ever seen has had the decals etc. Nice cars, yes, subtle though? Not in my humble opinion.

Look past the decals and badges and focus on the body styling, M power cars not as subtle, even more so with the current crop.

At my workshop we see a lot of Alpina’s, likely more than an other in the UK including Sytner, everything from the current G2x and G3x models all the way back to shark nose Alpina’s from the 70’s I would say it’s a fairly even split on the decals. I like them, many don’t. My B10 didn’t have them from new but I added some gold ones with it being a black car.

I’ll guess we will have to agree to disagree on subtlety though!