RE: BMW M3 vs Alpina B3 vs BMW M340i

[E90_M3Ross]

andy-integrale said:

Not sure how much more subtle a 186 MPH / 3.7 to 60 car can be.

https://youtu.be/8YEX6uB_A08?si=CmIlsUxP2tHPUpN-

Agree. About the same as an F90 M5 debadged

[AmyRichardson]

The depressing thing is that if you're shopping for something like these, these are your choices.

4-pot C-Class, no. A4, oh please - in the same convo as an Alpina? Q4 estate, not a real thing.

[Glenn63]

cerb4.5lee said:

E90_M3Ross said:

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

That is all I'm trying to get at as well Ross...when I say that Alpina don't really know what they want to be/who they're aimed at/their marketplace.

You either want loud and shouty(M car), or you want go under the radar(Alpina). Yet Alpina insist on massive wheels/in your face chrome, and daft decals/stickers, so it just doesn't make sense/add up to me really.

I don’t think there’s a much subtler car on sale with the same performance as a B5? Compare this to the latest RS6 or M5 touring when that arrives.

[E90_M3Ross]

Glenn63 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

E90_M3Ross said:

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

That is all I'm trying to get at as well Ross...when I say that Alpina don't really know what they want to be/who they're aimed at/their marketplace.

You either want loud and shouty(M car), or you want go under the radar(Alpina). Yet Alpina insist on massive wheels/in your face chrome, and daft decals/stickers, so it just doesn't make sense/add up to me really.

I don’t think there’s a much subtler car on sale with the same performance as a B5? Compare this to the latest RS6 or M5 touring when that arrives.

It should be compared to the outgoing M5, on which it is based, surely? OK there is no touring, but likewise the next Alpina will be based on the next gen.

How about viewing it from the rear? It has 4 exhausts. 4 exhausts are never subtle. It might be a bit more subtle than an M5 but it's hardly night and day is it.

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Monday 6th May 18:51

[CABC]

Glenn63 said:

I don’t think there’s a much subtler car on sale with the same performance as a B5? Compare this to the latest RS6 or M5 touring when that arrives.

it is more subtle than the Chinese front end of modern BMWs, but I'd agree with Ross and Lee. A gentleman's express would lose the aftermarket wheels and badging. leave some other subtle cues for those in the know.
That said, maybe Alpina know their market quite well and they want a few more obvious tell-tales.

[Glenn63]

E90_M3Ross said:

Glenn63 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

E90_M3Ross said:

pcws1979 said:

A nice choice to have, the 340i would be enough car for anyone, the M3 is the estate we always wanted but Alpina's are always so classy, I'd think I'd have the Alpina.

I realise this may come across as argumentative, but I do not wish it to sound so....but are Alpinas really more classy? OK this one doesn't have the gopping grille, but it still had 4 exhausts, and decals saying ALPINA on them, with enormous wheels. How, for example, is the Alpina B5 more classy than the outgoing M5, for example?

That is all I'm trying to get at as well Ross...when I say that Alpina don't really know what they want to be/who they're aimed at/their marketplace.

You either want loud and shouty(M car), or you want go under the radar(Alpina). Yet Alpina insist on massive wheels/in your face chrome, and daft decals/stickers, so it just doesn't make sense/add up to me really.

I don’t think there’s a much subtler car on sale with the same performance as a B5? Compare this to the latest RS6 or M5 touring when that arrives.

It should be compared to the outgoing M5, on which it is based, surely? OK there is no touring, but likewise the next Alpina will be based on the next gen.

How about viewing it from the rear? It has 4 exhausts. 4 exhausts are never subtle. It might be a bit more subtle than an M5 but it's hardly night and day is it.

Edited by E90_M3Ross on Monday 6th May 18:51

Still fairly discreet non petrol heads won’t be looking twice at it. But tbf the M5 is much more subtle than the M3. I think M3 to B3 is a much bigger difference. Hard to make out the massive M3 arches below.







No badges are decals and the B3 could just be 320d, M3 will always look over the top imo especially the front.

[Baldchap]

cerb4.5lee said:

Baldchap said:

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

I've just always struggled with how loud they are on the outside, yet they are quite calm and collected inside though. Plus I believe that they always ride really well too, so that is also a further nod to old and boring in my eyes(however I'm definitely not saying that a nice ride is a bad thing though).

I almost typed this to you on another thread where you were replying to someone else, but I do have to say, I don't think I have ever been on a forum with anyone who comes across as well as you do Lee.

I've got a B5 and I've got a GRY, if ever you fancy a go I'm in the next county (Leicestershire).

I'm married to a woman and very happy.

[BSSBMW]

sunnyb13 said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

Had the S58 and B58 in different guises (X3M and M340i). No mention of the gearbox which for many is beyond criticism but for me ruined the X3M/S58 as I hated the way that it was impossible to drive with the kind of sensitivity that you can with a manual using my 981 Spyder by comparison or indeed the M340i which had a manual but I found boring overall. That isn’t to say that the M3 should have a manual - I just wish auto gearboxes were better - as in the direct mechanical feel, sensitivity and micro adjustability that you take for granted in any manual irrespective of the change itself. So - ultimately - I found the S58 pared to the ZF8 a blunt instrument. Fast yes. Interesting or clever or engaging, no.

Didn’t realise you could get the M340i’s in manual.

You can’t!

[CLK-GTR]

CABC said:

it is more subtle than the Chinese front end of modern BMWs, but I'd agree with Ross and Lee. A gentleman's express would lose the aftermarket wheels and badging. leave some other subtle cues for those in the know.
That said, maybe Alpina know their market quite well and they want a few more obvious tell-tales.

Big wheels and stickers can be done with some class, see Alpina vs anything coming from BMW M at the moment. The whole performance car market has gone more in your face obvious though. Compare the understated brawn of the E46 M3 to the current monstrosity.

[cerb4.5lee]

Baldchap said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Baldchap said:

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

I've just always struggled with how loud they are on the outside, yet they are quite calm and collected inside though. Plus I believe that they always ride really well too, so that is also a further nod to old and boring in my eyes(however I'm definitely not saying that a nice ride is a bad thing though).

I almost typed this to you on another thread where you were replying to someone else, but I do have to say, I don't think I have ever been on a forum with anyone who comes across as well as you do Lee.

I've got a B5 and I've got a GRY, if ever you fancy a go I'm in the next county (Leicestershire).

I'm married to a woman and very happy.

That is so kind of you to say thanks, and it means a lot.

I'm very honest, and that doesn't always go down that well in fairness, but I will always stay true to myself though.

I also appreciate your offer of getting together too, and you have an awesome collection of cars for sure I reckon.

I love my missus as well so I'm with you, but I'd be lying if I said that we are always happy though!

[Ashok]

[jp-sr71]

I’d have liked to have seen a DMS M340d (435hp/800Nn) thrown in the mix…

[philmots]

I came from hot batches into 2 new M340i Tourings, they’re absolutely amazing cars for the money.. let down by their standard fit tyres. I fitted BMW* PS4S to my last M340i and there was a notable improvement, specially when it was cold/greasy.

They’re really fast, driven properly I averaged around 32mpg over all driving and early 40’s on long runs which is amazing for the performance. I was always happy with it but it’s an 8/10ths car, it lacked that last bit of body control and outright grip going any more. Amazing amazing daily cars.

I then borrowed an M3 Touring for a day…

I realised what I was missing, straight line speed was always a given but the cars body control is unbelievable.. it gave me exactly what I was missing from the 340, and braking performance matched. It feels way more special, it looks way more special… these were all things I wasn’t expecting to notice and enjoy as much.

Anyway, I bought one😆 it’s amazing, the bucket seats are a pain getting in and out but really comfy once in.. imo they make the car. It’s terrible on fuel, averaging 22 mpg when the 340 was doing 32 and it will just scrape above 30mpg on a run… probably worse than I was expecting but for me it’s worth it. I love the way it looks and it gets the right amount of attention (mine is black) by the right people which I never thought I’d enjoy.

So I’d recommend to anyone if you want a full sports car type experience… I need one car to do everything, I have no option of a diesel 3 series and an MX5.

It’s amazing but not cheap.. and the 340i is probably a better daily car if you’ve got something else for your kicks.

[Lowtimer]

E90_M3Ross said:

Every Alpina I've ever seen has had the decals etc. Nice cars, yes, subtle though? Not in my humble opinion.

That just means you didn't notice the ones without the decals, they just blend into the background

[UncleGoat]

I'll take either the B3 or M340i, at least I can turn around and admire such a beautiful car, I'll start gagging if I turned around and saw the ugly M3.

I'll take both in Isle of Man Green please.

Edited by UncleGoat on Tuesday 7th May 13:35

[Chunkychucky]

E90_M3Ross said:

And the E39 Alpina B10 V8 has badges which are pretty large and read "V8".

Subtle

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If by "more subtle" you're referring to cars 25 years ago, PERHAPS.

And you've hit the nail on the head - it's all subjective. If you don't get it, you don't get it No need to feel bad, implore the masses to help you see the light, or to cast aspersions about those who do get it, just log it as something that's lost on you and move on with your day.

[E90_M3Ross]

Chunkychucky said:

And you've hit the nail on the head - it's all subjective. If you don't get it, you don't get it No need to feel bad, implore the masses to help you see the light, or to cast aspersions about those who do get it, just log it as something that's lost on you and move on with your day.

I wouldn't say it's lost on me. If Alpina wanted to be super subtle they'd probably reduce the wheel size an inch or so, wouldn't even offer the stickers as an option, and not put 4 exhaust pipes at the back

[D4rez]

Robertb said:

Baldchap said:

It hasn't died *yet*, but obviously the writing is well and truly on the wall.

I was talking to an Alpina representative who, interestingly, said they are not going to blather the brand everywhere like they do M logos, rather Alpina will be a Maybach competitor based on the 7 series platform.

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

Edited by Baldchap on Monday 6th May 07:19

Please no. The 7 series is awful looking even by modern BMW standards, no amount of Alpinarising will fix that.

Besides, don’t BMW own RR as a luxury brand?

I’d far rather the Alpina name just died rather than ending up on the side of mundane products as an up-spec trim, like Ghia or Vignale.

To be fair to them, that’s about the only positioning option open to them. Performance is so easy in the EV world and big wheels are everywhere now, not much space left for them

[toon10]

I'd take the Alpina. It has the pace of the M3 but more comfortable and less hardcore. It also doesn't have the M3 grill! You're not going to track a large, heavy estate car so it should be more civilized. Kudos to the M340i though. It's a great all-rounder and certainly no slouch. I have the previous gen 340i and it does everything well without excelling in any particular department.

[WPA]

Alpina would be my choice