EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
braddo said:
Just to add I don't buy brand new cars either and do not intend buying an EV any time soon. That is mainly because I don't commute by car and I hope to never do so, I hate it.
I dont like tripe, never have and dont intend to buy any let alone eat it and I hope to never do so. I hate it.cj2013 said:
romft123 said:
Weirdly enough, it is appreciating in value according to their price edit historyThat's the kind of thing I'd jump at it if it was local - if not just for the pure novelty of the project.
That garage is opposite an old people's home, so I wonder if there's a correlation
BricktopST205 said:
This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
I think that the point is that people are buying EVsAnd there's no dispute that EVs don't suit some people - you need to tow a heavy load, so it wouldn't work for you. Unlucky.
What's being disputed is random claims like needing 400 miles of range at minimum and the point blank refusal to accept any form of compromise in return for the current financial incentives that an EV brings.
Will those financial incentives continue? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly wouldn't buy an EV at the moment, over leasing one or taking on through the company, but I can also fairly confidently say that the financial status of owning ICE will not improve in the future.....
Muzzer79 said:
I think that the point is that people are buying EVs
And there's no dispute that EVs don't suit some people - you need to tow a heavy load, so it wouldn't work for you. Unlucky.
What's being disputed is random claims like needing 400 miles of range at minimum and the point blank refusal to accept any form of compromise in return for the current financial incentives that an EV brings.
Will those financial incentives continue? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly wouldn't buy an EV at the moment, over leasing one or taking on through the company, but I can also fairly confidently say that the financial status of owning ICE will not improve in the future.....
I don't see random claims. I see genuine reasons. And there's no dispute that EVs don't suit some people - you need to tow a heavy load, so it wouldn't work for you. Unlucky.
What's being disputed is random claims like needing 400 miles of range at minimum and the point blank refusal to accept any form of compromise in return for the current financial incentives that an EV brings.
Will those financial incentives continue? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly wouldn't buy an EV at the moment, over leasing one or taking on through the company, but I can also fairly confidently say that the financial status of owning ICE will not improve in the future.....
Also why does the consumer need to compromise when the ICE alternative can offer everything to them without compromise?
When the EV is no longer the compromise then that is when you switch over and ditch the ICE. How is that difficult to understand?
If an EV doesn't compromise you in any way then good luck to you but judging by sales being propped up by fleet and company car schemes it would seem the consumer is more the other way.
Ankh87 said:
What if they don't like Teslas? Would you buy a car that you don't like? It's the biggest payment you make other than buying a house.
So yes there's an option but telling people that's their only choice isn't going to sell. There needs to be a decent amount of choices like now with the ability to super duper rapid charge like Teslas do.
That would be me, while i would consider EV nothin suits my needs at the minute, the only positive for Tesla is the charging netwrork however I cannot stand them.So yes there's an option but telling people that's their only choice isn't going to sell. There needs to be a decent amount of choices like now with the ability to super duper rapid charge like Teslas do.
BricktopST205 said:
I don't see random claims. I see genuine reasons.
Also why does the consumer need to compromise when the ICE alternative can offer everything to them without compromise?
When the EV is no longer the compromise then that is when you switch over and ditch the ICE. How is that difficult to understand?
If an EV doesn't compromise you in any way then good luck to you but judging by sales being propped up by fleet and company car schemes it would seem the consumer is more the other way.
A-men to that.Also why does the consumer need to compromise when the ICE alternative can offer everything to them without compromise?
When the EV is no longer the compromise then that is when you switch over and ditch the ICE. How is that difficult to understand?
If an EV doesn't compromise you in any way then good luck to you but judging by sales being propped up by fleet and company car schemes it would seem the consumer is more the other way.
BricktopST205 said:
I go to watch BTCC at brands hatch with a friend. We leave early at half 5 to get there in a decent time. The return trip is 300+ miles. We get there park up in a field with zero charging. Spend the whole day there. Leave about 7pm to get back to go to bed for work the next day. The last thing I want to be doing is stopping on the way home and charging. I just want to crack on for 2 and half hours and get home.
This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
But again, your example is very niche (in the context of the UK population), i.e. 150 mile drive in 2.5 hours, equals 60mph average, which means you're cruising at 85-90 as much as possible and without a break.This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
The vast majority of people would take a break for a 150 mile journey, especially when it's during the evening after a very long day. In which case, if one was in an EV and did a 20 minute top up at a services on the way home, the journey is easily doable and it is not a barrier to owning an EV.
braddo said:
But again, your example is very niche (in the context of the UK population), i.e. 150 mile drive in 2.5 hours, equals 60mph average, which means you're cruising at 85-90 as much as possible and without a break.
The vast majority of people would take a break for a 150 mile journey, especially when it's during the evening after a very long day. In which case, if one was in an EV and did a 20 minute top up at a services on the way home, the journey is easily doable and it is not a barrier to owning an EV.
Again your hypothesising and making general sweeping statements. The point is the ICE doesn't need to stop in that situation. I do not consider a 2.5-3 hour drive long either. The vast majority of people would take a break for a 150 mile journey, especially when it's during the evening after a very long day. In which case, if one was in an EV and did a 20 minute top up at a services on the way home, the journey is easily doable and it is not a barrier to owning an EV.
I have family in America, continental Europe and Australia. A 2.5-3 hour drive without stopping is par for course. The UK is the exception not the norm. Americans average mileage per year is double ours for example.
cj2013 said:
Ankh87 said:
What if they don't like Teslas? Would you buy a car that you don't like? It's the biggest payment you make other than buying a house.
So yes there's an option but telling people that's their only choice isn't going to sell. There needs to be a decent amount of choices like now with the ability to super duper rapid charge like Teslas do.
No one has said that. The arguments are always things like "I can't get an EV because... no home charger, not enough range, public chargers too expensive, don't have £40k for one"So yes there's an option but telling people that's their only choice isn't going to sell. There needs to be a decent amount of choices like now with the ability to super duper rapid charge like Teslas do.
I'm simply pointing out that there's a solution for almost all of those reasons. If someone wants to be honest and say they don't like them, then that's fine - it's the poor logic behind the loudest arguments that causes the contention, because the excuses have solutions.
Ankh87 said:
It's the biggest payment you make other than buying a house.
It isn't. My student loan cost me more per month and in total than a Tesla.Childcare costs significantly more.
etc.
BricktopST205 said:
Muzzer79 said:
I think that the point is that people are buying EVs
And there's no dispute that EVs don't suit some people - you need to tow a heavy load, so it wouldn't work for you. Unlucky.
What's being disputed is random claims like needing 400 miles of range at minimum and the point blank refusal to accept any form of compromise in return for the current financial incentives that an EV brings.
Will those financial incentives continue? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly wouldn't buy an EV at the moment, over leasing one or taking on through the company, but I can also fairly confidently say that the financial status of owning ICE will not improve in the future.....
I don't see random claims. I see genuine reasons. And there's no dispute that EVs don't suit some people - you need to tow a heavy load, so it wouldn't work for you. Unlucky.
What's being disputed is random claims like needing 400 miles of range at minimum and the point blank refusal to accept any form of compromise in return for the current financial incentives that an EV brings.
Will those financial incentives continue? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly wouldn't buy an EV at the moment, over leasing one or taking on through the company, but I can also fairly confidently say that the financial status of owning ICE will not improve in the future.....
Also why does the consumer need to compromise when the ICE alternative can offer everything to them without compromise?
When the EV is no longer the compromise then that is when you switch over and ditch the ICE. How is that difficult to understand?
If an EV doesn't compromise you in any way then good luck to you but judging by sales being propped up by fleet and company car schemes it would seem the consumer is more the other way.
There are several barriers to owning an EV. If you remove those barriers take up will improve.
Beyond hosing money at people who can afford it already, i see little (no?) evidence of any effort to remove those barriers.
As long as they remain, take up will remain low.
Arguing those barriers dont exist, which is mostly what happens here will achieve zero out in the real worl.
Its really not rocket science.
braddo said:
BricktopST205 said:
I go to watch BTCC at brands hatch with a friend. We leave early at half 5 to get there in a decent time. The return trip is 300+ miles. We get there park up in a field with zero charging. Spend the whole day there. Leave about 7pm to get back to go to bed for work the next day. The last thing I want to be doing is stopping on the way home and charging. I just want to crack on for 2 and half hours and get home.
This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
But again, your example is very niche (in the context of the UK population), i.e. 150 mile drive in 2.5 hours, equals 60mph average, which means you're cruising at 85-90 as much as possible and without a break.This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
The vast majority of people would take a break for a 150 mile journey, especially when it's during the evening after a very long day. In which case, if one was in an EV and did a 20 minute top up at a services on the way home, the journey is easily doable and it is not a barrier to owning an EV.
GeneralBanter said:
braddo said:
BricktopST205 said:
I go to watch BTCC at brands hatch with a friend. We leave early at half 5 to get there in a decent time. The return trip is 300+ miles. We get there park up in a field with zero charging. Spend the whole day there. Leave about 7pm to get back to go to bed for work the next day. The last thing I want to be doing is stopping on the way home and charging. I just want to crack on for 2 and half hours and get home.
This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
But again, your example is very niche (in the context of the UK population), i.e. 150 mile drive in 2.5 hours, equals 60mph average, which means you're cruising at 85-90 as much as possible and without a break.This thread title is about why no one is buying EV's and when posters say why they are not they just get lambasted instead of acknowledging that they might be valid points! Otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not needing to be incentivised by government tax breaks!
The vast majority of people would take a break for a 150 mile journey, especially when it's during the evening after a very long day. In which case, if one was in an EV and did a 20 minute top up at a services on the way home, the journey is easily doable and it is not a barrier to owning an EV.
I don't mind it, and it's cheaper than petrol.
Before too long I'll have a 250-300 mile range EV, I hope, but I'll still probably stop once on the journey still.
Works for me, others are free to dislike the idea.
monkfish1 said:
I dont know why its so difficult to understand either.
There are several barriers to owning an EV. If you remove those barriers take up will improve.
Beyond hosing money at people who can afford it already, i see little (no?) evidence of any effort to remove those barriers.
As long as they remain, take up will remain low.
Arguing those barriers dont exist, which is mostly what happens here will achieve zero out in the real worl.
Its really not rocket science.
It's a long term transition - people will still be buying brand new ICEs for another decade. There is a significant proportion of the population to whom those barriers are not significant, and it's likely to be some time before that demand is saturated (keep in mind that most people run used cars). Some of the barriers - like "public charging is too sparse and too expensive" are likely to be removed. Some of the barriers - like "it adds time to very long car journeys" and "it makes car ownership in dense urban areas more difficult" are likely to get answers like "yes, we will improve bus and rail services and encourage active transport" rather than "we will remove these barriers to using an EV for that". Some things - like "But I want to tow big things long distances for leisure with the convenience I'm used to" - may get "sorry, we can't build transport policy around your wants".There are several barriers to owning an EV. If you remove those barriers take up will improve.
Beyond hosing money at people who can afford it already, i see little (no?) evidence of any effort to remove those barriers.
As long as they remain, take up will remain low.
Arguing those barriers dont exist, which is mostly what happens here will achieve zero out in the real worl.
Its really not rocket science.
monkfish1 said:
Please do share your solution to not having the £40k. Or even £10k.
My own circumstances: Student loan finally paid off at £280 pcm. Existing car was costing £28pcm in VED, and £100pcm in diesel at approx 35mpg.£1k down on a used EV, with £280pcm PCP.
I could have used £20k in savings to buy outright, but I chose to pay interest instead of depreciation risk, as it's not typical for me to expect to own a car more than a couple of years.
Total difference between running and maintaining the diesel ICE vs cost of EV is around £200 max, and I now don't have to compromise performance with economy, nor do I worry about timing belts, emissions systems, rust, or other engine concepts like headgaskets
otolith said:
monkfish1 said:
I dont know why its so difficult to understand either.
There are several barriers to owning an EV. If you remove those barriers take up will improve.
Beyond hosing money at people who can afford it already, i see little (no?) evidence of any effort to remove those barriers.
As long as they remain, take up will remain low.
Arguing those barriers dont exist, which is mostly what happens here will achieve zero out in the real worl.
Its really not rocket science.
It's a long term transition - people will still be buying brand new ICEs for another decade. There is a significant proportion of the population to whom those barriers are not significant, and it's likely to be some time before that demand is saturated (keep in mind that most people run used cars). Some of the barriers - like "public charging is too sparse and too expensive" are likely to be removed. Some of the barriers - like "it adds time to very long car journeys" and "it makes car ownership in dense urban areas more difficult" are likely to get answers like "yes, we will improve bus and rail services and encourage active transport" rather than "we will remove these barriers to using an EV for that". Some things - like "But I want to tow big things long distances for leisure with the convenience I'm used to" - may get "sorry, we can't build transport policy around your wants".There are several barriers to owning an EV. If you remove those barriers take up will improve.
Beyond hosing money at people who can afford it already, i see little (no?) evidence of any effort to remove those barriers.
As long as they remain, take up will remain low.
Arguing those barriers dont exist, which is mostly what happens here will achieve zero out in the real worl.
Its really not rocket science.
The focus of the post however was those insisting the barriers are not real, are not there etc.
I still find the issue with caravans, which i presume your last point refers to, an interesting one. Its an absolutely massive leisure activity, which essentially will be phased out of existence if your prediction comes to pass. I see some trouble ahead with that.
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