EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
MightyBadger said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!tamore said:
we're yet to see how sainsburys are going to set their charging stations up. if they are a row of chargers in an existing carpark, or more of a petrol station setup.
tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
Just work out the maximum number of units that a charger can sell in day. tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
tamore said:
MightyBadger said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!It would be interesting to see how the case was won.
TheRainMaker said:
tamore said:
MightyBadger said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!It would be interesting to see how the case was won.
. He soils himself more than a dithering old biddy. tamore said:
geoff buys cars…. that'll be balanced!
Who cares, I thought it was interesting. The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
Geoff buys cars does make me laugh, you should never take it seriously
As for fuel, well electricity people are running ev’s based on cost, when the costs are no longer in ev’s favour- road tax goes up bik goes up, fuel goes up …. If the government isn’t making £ on vat and duty on petrol and diesel then where do you think it’s going to come from.
As for fuel, well electricity people are running ev’s based on cost, when the costs are no longer in ev’s favour- road tax goes up bik goes up, fuel goes up …. If the government isn’t making £ on vat and duty on petrol and diesel then where do you think it’s going to come from.
There's two ways they'll do it, either they'll be an across the board duty on electricity or we'll have pay per mile & fuel duty is going nowhere.
The former is easier & cheaper to implement, where as pay per mile will be more expensive for the end user as it's more expensive to implement & police.
The former is easier & cheaper to implement, where as pay per mile will be more expensive for the end user as it's more expensive to implement & police.
I’ve just got back from a trip to Italy during which I hired a Peugeot 208 EV. How did it compare to my BMW i3s?
- It drives like the regular 208 only quieter
- Range would be around 250 miles
- Plasticky inside
- Comfortable and reasonably fast in Sport mode.
- You can’t see the Cruise control buttons as the steering is in the way.
Overall a good car, but the I3 is still the king of the castle in this sector. It’s just an overall unique experience driving the I3 and brisk in S iteration. The battery life lets it down, mind.
Honestly guys, for the mainstream cars EV is the future.
- It drives like the regular 208 only quieter
- Range would be around 250 miles
- Plasticky inside
- Comfortable and reasonably fast in Sport mode.
- You can’t see the Cruise control buttons as the steering is in the way.
Overall a good car, but the I3 is still the king of the castle in this sector. It’s just an overall unique experience driving the I3 and brisk in S iteration. The battery life lets it down, mind.
Honestly guys, for the mainstream cars EV is the future.
DonkeyApple said:
tamore said:
we're yet to see how sainsburys are going to set their charging stations up. if they are a row of chargers in an existing carpark, or more of a petrol station setup.
tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
Just work out the maximum number of units that a charger can sell in day. tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
One in our nearest town was barely used for the first few years.
Now the motorist has to pay the full cost of chargers as a service, and of course operators want to make a profit.
tamore said:
we're yet to see how sainsburys are going to set their charging stations up. if they are a row of chargers in an existing carpark, or more of a petrol station setup.
tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
Leicester Sainsbury's popped in 18 x 150kW chargers into a zone of their existing car park. No cover, although I guess you're not going to stand there to fill up, so not essential that it's covered. Prices displayed above the chargers on large LCD signs a bit like a petrol station so you can easily see in advance how much it will be. 75p / kWh when I saw them.tesla target in 2022 was for 10% margin on superchargers. no idea if this has been achieved.
whatever happens, 80pkWh isn't going to help the transition. rapids were 35p in september 2021, and presumably they were making enough to cover costs at least at that time.
tamore said:
news that CATL are putting their new LFP cells into the model Y juniper. 600 miles, very flat charging curve, almost no performance reduction in freezing conditions, 50-60 USD kWh.
quite a leap if the claims are good in the real world.
Bit late, but why would MY battery differ greatly from M3?quite a leap if the claims are good in the real world.
ZX10R NIN said:
There's two ways they'll do it, either they'll be an across the board duty on electricity or we'll have pay per mile & fuel duty is going nowhere.
The former is easier & cheaper to implement, where as pay per mile will be more expensive for the end user as it's more expensive to implement & police.
Yup. Just tiered taxation on energy consumption. Utility services are the cheapest and most efficient form of tax collection and it would take 5 minutes to change the VAT billing to collect different levels for different consumption and it all easily fits an eco narrative while being progressive so few could logically complain. The former is easier & cheaper to implement, where as pay per mile will be more expensive for the end user as it's more expensive to implement & police.
The problem with ppm isn't just that it's more expensive to implement it is also politically toxic as it involves tracking etc but it's also regressive as a tax as it penalises the poorest motorist statistically.
Meanwhile, the brilliant thing about EVs isn't that no one wants them as that's not remotely relevant in the grand scheme of things, they're coming and that's that but the benefit is that many people can't yet use them so the pool of used buyers is smaller than it is for ICE so used values are actually pretty good for those who can use them but don't want new. Used ones make great shopping and commute wagons for folks with driveways and who don't need a new car every week but happy to just buy something second hand and keep it until it's ready for the bin.
OutInTheShed said:
Back a few years ago, I suspect most chargers were subsidised?
One in our nearest town was barely used for the first few years.
Now the motorist has to pay the full cost of chargers as a service, and of course operators want to make a profit.
The typical lone street charger is still being subsidised by local councils. The ones at destination points tend to subsidised by the retailer using them to draw in consumers or for green washing PR and most of the dedicated firms remain loss making on sales. One in our nearest town was barely used for the first few years.
Now the motorist has to pay the full cost of chargers as a service, and of course operators want to make a profit.
For years to come yet the bulk of EV users will be folk who do nearly all of their charging at home so it'll be a long time before we get to the point that each charge point has enough buying customers a day to be clearly profitable but the companies need to keep building out and need to win plots.
What's important is that no taxpayer money should be spent on it. Like Tesla it's down to private enterprise and their investors to pay and to compete for us, not for us to front them the capital that will deliver them future profits.
Plus, the car manufacturers will have to put their hands in their pockets due to the ZEV Mandate. If they can't sell enough EVs due to charging issues deterring customers from switching then it's their problem to solve, not ours. There are hundreds of car manufacturers and if they want a share of the lucrative U.K. market they need to fight for it. It's time for a spot of capitalism and to let them at each other. Likewise, employers. If their shareholders wish to reap the rewards from employees all using EVs then they need to put their hands in their pockets. It's not our job nor responsibility to be giving them money. We just need to sweat them out as they've zero option but to do so.
MightyBadger said:
Who cares, I thought it was interesting.
The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
i'm not being part of monetising that bellend's youtube account. likewise McMaster and others. they're clickbait.The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
as for head in sand. i'm 2 years in to having my head in the sand of actually running an EV. was the same cost as the ICE model (vauxhall combo life), and costs absolutely peanuts to run. easily carried our 3 labradors about in plenty of space, or 8 casks of beer when needed during the working day. range could be better, so longer trips need 5 mins planning.
Edited by tamore on Monday 6th May 21:41
stevemcs said:
Geoff buys cars does make me laugh, you should never take it seriously
As for fuel, well electricity people are running ev’s based on cost, when the costs are no longer in ev’s favour- road tax goes up bik goes up, fuel goes up …. If the government isn’t making £ on vat and duty on petrol and diesel then where do you think it’s going to come from.
Road use charging for everyone, and even more prohibitive taxation on ICE cars I'd have thought under a Labour government? As for fuel, well electricity people are running ev’s based on cost, when the costs are no longer in ev’s favour- road tax goes up bik goes up, fuel goes up …. If the government isn’t making £ on vat and duty on petrol and diesel then where do you think it’s going to come from.
I'd happily pay the same or more than ICE to run an EV personally as they are far better as a daily for my use. Won't be the case for everyone of course, but for me the cheap running costs at the moment are just a bonus.
MightyBadger said:
Who cares, I thought it was interesting.
The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
It's irrefutable evidence that no one is buying EVs.The thread is called EVs... nobody wants them. The story in the video is from a newspaper about a guy who had an EV and then didn't want it because it didn't do as expected and is taking the manufacturer to court.
Perfect for the thread title.
You could just ignore it and bury your head in the sand?
tamore said:
i'm not being part of monetising that bellend's youtube account. likewise McMaster and others. they're clickbait.
as for head in sand. i'm 2 years in to having my head in the sand of actually running an EV. was the same cost as the ICE model (vauxhall combo life), and costs absolutely peanuts to run. easily carried our 3 labradors about in plenty of space, or 8 casks of beer when needed during the working day. range could be better, so longer trips need 5 mins planning.
Why worry about it though. Those people are just exploiting the people EVs aren't even aimed at or meant for and won't be for years to come. Like tabloids they're just winding a target group up to grift some cash. as for head in sand. i'm 2 years in to having my head in the sand of actually running an EV. was the same cost as the ICE model (vauxhall combo life), and costs absolutely peanuts to run. easily carried our 3 labradors about in plenty of space, or 8 casks of beer when needed during the working day. range could be better, so longer trips need 5 mins planning.
Edited by tamore on Monday 6th May 21:41
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