Discussion
Zarco said:
He wanted a longer fuel tank to give him more support on the brakes/at lean angle I think. By the time they gave it to him and started winning they had already fallen out, and Lorenzo had signed for HRC.
Really shot themselves in the foot there.
He wanted a sculptured tank with a grippy surface applied so he could use his thighs to grip the bike under heavy braking, to take some load off his arms.Really shot themselves in the foot there.
732NM said:
Zarco said:
He wanted a longer fuel tank to give him more support on the brakes/at lean angle I think. By the time they gave it to him and started winning they had already fallen out, and Lorenzo had signed for HRC.
Really shot themselves in the foot there.
He wanted a sculptured tank with a grippy surface applied so he could use his thighs to grip the bike under heavy braking, to take some load off his arms.Really shot themselves in the foot there.
Don't underestimate Marc's publicity value as well, he's been around a long time and while can be divisive due to his riding style he sells a lot of merch and generates a lot of news articles. If you're a sponsor each news article has a picture of him in his leathers, with your brand/logo on it. Each shirt he sells generates cash for the team. Each time he's racing hard the TV cameras are focussed on him.
I can't understand why any team wouldn't want him - he's still the best rider on the grid today, at least, until Acosta knocks him off his throne.
I can't understand why any team wouldn't want him - he's still the best rider on the grid today, at least, until Acosta knocks him off his throne.
What happens to Marc Marquez I think all depends on Jorge Martin winning or losing the championship, if he wins he's in the factory team alongside Bagnaia, if he loses he's off (to Aprilia?) and Marquez is in alongside Bagnaia, Bastianini off to Pramac or VR46.
Also Pramac are yet to confirm they will be Ducati customer next year (and VR46 eagerly hoping they aren't to get the 2025 bikes), could the Martin issue and the where to put Marquez on a 2025 bike be a big part of Pramac's negotiations the more Martin leads the championship in the hope that he wins and they get Marquez and Ducati pays his salary.
But then money is another problem for Ducati with their new tight-fisted attitude to riders pay.
Could Pramac jump ship to KTM with KTM paying Marquez's big salary? Would Marquez want to change bike again, but he's discovered it doesn't take him long to adapt.
Of course this isn't Ducati's worst seat juggling nightmare, their worst nightmare is Martin just winning over Bastianini, Marquez a close 3rd and factory contracted double champ Bagnaia a distant 4th or worse. Managing that so everyone is happy will be tricky.
Also Pramac are yet to confirm they will be Ducati customer next year (and VR46 eagerly hoping they aren't to get the 2025 bikes), could the Martin issue and the where to put Marquez on a 2025 bike be a big part of Pramac's negotiations the more Martin leads the championship in the hope that he wins and they get Marquez and Ducati pays his salary.
But then money is another problem for Ducati with their new tight-fisted attitude to riders pay.
Could Pramac jump ship to KTM with KTM paying Marquez's big salary? Would Marquez want to change bike again, but he's discovered it doesn't take him long to adapt.
Of course this isn't Ducati's worst seat juggling nightmare, their worst nightmare is Martin just winning over Bastianini, Marquez a close 3rd and factory contracted double champ Bagnaia a distant 4th or worse. Managing that so everyone is happy will be tricky.
For D'Alignia, MM93 offers something that Pecco doesn't.
Pecco is an engineers dream, he rides the bike as he's instructed to. He's a robot and he's brilliant at it, two titles on the best bike, you still have to be the best of the riders with that bike and he has been.
What Pecco isn't, isn't as much of an intuitive rider like MM93, able to ride round issues, able to do things with the bike when its setup isn't 100% and make the crowd go, WoW!
As a factory Ducati rider, the factory would then have two of the best, with contrasting styles, and are more likely to be able to get to the performances every weekend from one or the other if not both.
Add to that MM93 remains the biggest name in MotoGP, like Ferrari signing Hamilton, it's a similar set of circumstances. MM93 has shown already that he'll take the pay cut and the bonuses - the Ducati way - already. Add in the potential sponsorships, personal and for the factory and it makes a lot of sense.
The flip of that is that is it's not difficult to formulate a similar argument for satellite team, another manufacturer or a new spec Ducati bike in a satellite team etc.
I just don't get the impression that the factory want Jorge, Bastia needs to improve his performances ....
Why wouldn't you sign MM93 if you could?
If (big if) Jorge wins the championship, would he get the factory seat, MM93 goes to Pramac on a '25 spec bike.
Pecco is an engineers dream, he rides the bike as he's instructed to. He's a robot and he's brilliant at it, two titles on the best bike, you still have to be the best of the riders with that bike and he has been.
What Pecco isn't, isn't as much of an intuitive rider like MM93, able to ride round issues, able to do things with the bike when its setup isn't 100% and make the crowd go, WoW!
As a factory Ducati rider, the factory would then have two of the best, with contrasting styles, and are more likely to be able to get to the performances every weekend from one or the other if not both.
Add to that MM93 remains the biggest name in MotoGP, like Ferrari signing Hamilton, it's a similar set of circumstances. MM93 has shown already that he'll take the pay cut and the bonuses - the Ducati way - already. Add in the potential sponsorships, personal and for the factory and it makes a lot of sense.
The flip of that is that is it's not difficult to formulate a similar argument for satellite team, another manufacturer or a new spec Ducati bike in a satellite team etc.
I just don't get the impression that the factory want Jorge, Bastia needs to improve his performances ....
Why wouldn't you sign MM93 if you could?
If (big if) Jorge wins the championship, would he get the factory seat, MM93 goes to Pramac on a '25 spec bike.
FourWheelDrift said:
What happens to Marc Marquez I think all depends on Jorge Martin winning or losing the championship, if he wins he's in the factory team alongside Bagnaia, if he loses he's off (to Aprilia?) and Marquez is in alongside Bagnaia, Bastianini off to Pramac or VR46.
Also Pramac are yet to confirm they will be Ducati customer next year (and VR46 eagerly hoping they aren't to get the 2025 bikes), could the Martin issue and the where to put Marquez on a 2025 bike be a big part of Pramac's negotiations the more Martin leads the championship in the hope that he wins and they get Marquez and Ducati pays his salary.
But then money is another problem for Ducati with their new tight-fisted attitude to riders pay.
Could Pramac jump ship to KTM with KTM paying Marquez's big salary? Would Marquez want to change bike again, but he's discovered it doesn't take him long to adapt.
Of course this isn't Ducati's worst seat juggling nightmare, their worst nightmare is Martin just winning over Bastianini, Marquez a close 3rd and factory contracted double champ Bagnaia a distant 4th or worse. Managing that so everyone is happy will be tricky.
I agree a lot, Martin is the key issue in the rider market. He's been very clear on his desire for a factory seat, been quite critical of the factory, has a bit of chip on his shoulder about it and if he delivers the championship then would seem to be factory bound. However, that can't be determined for several months yet and this is the conundrum and one of the reasons Quateraro signed as early as he did. The merry go round with will be messy and some will miss out.Also Pramac are yet to confirm they will be Ducati customer next year (and VR46 eagerly hoping they aren't to get the 2025 bikes), could the Martin issue and the where to put Marquez on a 2025 bike be a big part of Pramac's negotiations the more Martin leads the championship in the hope that he wins and they get Marquez and Ducati pays his salary.
But then money is another problem for Ducati with their new tight-fisted attitude to riders pay.
Could Pramac jump ship to KTM with KTM paying Marquez's big salary? Would Marquez want to change bike again, but he's discovered it doesn't take him long to adapt.
Of course this isn't Ducati's worst seat juggling nightmare, their worst nightmare is Martin just winning over Bastianini, Marquez a close 3rd and factory contracted double champ Bagnaia a distant 4th or worse. Managing that so everyone is happy will be tricky.
The fact that Ducati are providing data and parts to try to help Marc speaks volumes. Marc has stated in more than one interview that he knew before signing that the bike he gets allocated at the outset would be the same at the end of the season. i.e. No upgrades.
This has not turned around and Ducati are offering small things to start and may even do a full about turn and give him the full upgrades that the 2023 bike had on it at the end of last year.
Ducati stated that they had decided that the customer teams did not have the technical support and perhaps funds to run the bikes in the evoved spec that they were at end of 2023. This is looking like it is changing.
As for crew mistakes. Frankie has admitted that in COTA they made a suspension error for the Sprint Race and he couldnt believe that March had been able to ride it let alone do what he did.
He also did mention a brake issue that wouldnt be repeated So yes they are human and yes they have less bodies but Gresini still had winners and podiums in 2022 and 2023.
The difference now is Marc. He knows the team limitations and even those are better than the options he had to remain at Honda and be either on the floor or fighting for 6th to 10th.
Given the equipment equal to the best and the technical support I think that he would blitz the current field and I look forward to watching it.
Oh and just in case you think I am a fan, I am a dyed in the wool VR46 fanatic but I just love close racing and Marc is giving us that.
This has not turned around and Ducati are offering small things to start and may even do a full about turn and give him the full upgrades that the 2023 bike had on it at the end of last year.
Ducati stated that they had decided that the customer teams did not have the technical support and perhaps funds to run the bikes in the evoved spec that they were at end of 2023. This is looking like it is changing.
As for crew mistakes. Frankie has admitted that in COTA they made a suspension error for the Sprint Race and he couldnt believe that March had been able to ride it let alone do what he did.
He also did mention a brake issue that wouldnt be repeated So yes they are human and yes they have less bodies but Gresini still had winners and podiums in 2022 and 2023.
The difference now is Marc. He knows the team limitations and even those are better than the options he had to remain at Honda and be either on the floor or fighting for 6th to 10th.
Given the equipment equal to the best and the technical support I think that he would blitz the current field and I look forward to watching it.
Oh and just in case you think I am a fan, I am a dyed in the wool VR46 fanatic but I just love close racing and Marc is giving us that.
Johno said:
I agree a lot, Martin is the key issue in the rider market. He's been very clear on his desire for a factory seat, been quite critical of the factory, has a bit of chip on his shoulder about it and if he delivers the championship then would seem to be factory bound.
Being critical of the factory isn't the best way into a factory team, especially an Italian one, even if he does win the championship.I think MM is more likely to get the factory Ducati ride in 2025 for most of the many reasons already posted.
Chipchap said:
Ducati stated that they had decided that the customer teams did not have the technical support and perhaps funds to run the bikes in the evoved spec that they were at end of 2023.
Why would it cost more or be more complex to run the bikes as they were at the end of the year than at the start? Next year the customer teams will be on 2024 bikes, which surely will be more costly and complex than the bikes as they were at the end of 2023, using your logic. I can't see there being much difference in the cost of complexity of the bikes at the end of the year than at the start, and if there is a small difference then the teams would surely be used to that, each year the bike is different.
Condi said:
Chipchap said:
Ducati stated that they had decided that the customer teams did not have the technical support and perhaps funds to run the bikes in the evoved spec that they were at end of 2023.
Why would it cost more or be more complex to run the bikes as they were at the end of the year than at the start? Next year the customer teams will be on 2024 bikes, which surely will be more costly and complex than the bikes as they were at the end of 2023, using your logic. I can't see there being much difference in the cost of complexity of the bikes at the end of the year than at the start, and if there is a small difference then the teams would surely be used to that, each year the bike is different.
aeropilot said:
Johno said:
I agree a lot, Martin is the key issue in the rider market. He's been very clear on his desire for a factory seat, been quite critical of the factory, has a bit of chip on his shoulder about it and if he delivers the championship then would seem to be factory bound.
Being critical of the factory isn't the best way into a factory team, especially an Italian one, even if he does win the championship.I think MM is more likely to get the factory Ducati ride in 2025 for most of the many reasons already posted.
JM isn't media clever like MM93, he doesn't present a compelling case to be a factory rider beyond being fast. There are lots of fast riders and many of them are much better at presenting themselves and their employers in a better light.
MM93's media behaviour through the whole Honda departure was very genuine, respectful and showed real empathy for the factory and where they both were.
Martin is seemingly too happy to criticise and I think he'll end up at a lesser factory seat, Aprilia perhaps, and if he doesn't win the championship this year will be up against it in the future. He needs to look carefully at his interactions and saleability as a factory rider whilst also winning.
Johno said:
For D'Alignia, MM93 offers something that Pecco doesn't.
Pecco is an engineers dream, he rides the bike as he's instructed to. He's a robot and he's brilliant at it, two titles on the best bike, you still have to be the best of the riders with that bike and he has been.
What Pecco isn't, isn't as much of an intuitive rider like MM93, able to ride round issues, able to do things with the bike when its setup isn't 100% and make the crowd go, WoW!
As a factory Ducati rider, the factory would then have two of the best, with contrasting styles, and are more likely to be able to get to the performances every weekend from one or the other if not both.
Add to that MM93 remains the biggest name in MotoGP, like Ferrari signing Hamilton, it's a similar set of circumstances. MM93 has shown already that he'll take the pay cut and the bonuses - the Ducati way - already. Add in the potential sponsorships, personal and for the factory and it makes a lot of sense.
The flip of that is that is it's not difficult to formulate a similar argument for satellite team, another manufacturer or a new spec Ducati bike in a satellite team etc.
I just don't get the impression that the factory want Jorge, Bastia needs to improve his performances ....
Why wouldn't you sign MM93 if you could?
If (big if) Jorge wins the championship, would he get the factory seat, MM93 goes to Pramac on a '25 spec bike.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this.Pecco is an engineers dream, he rides the bike as he's instructed to. He's a robot and he's brilliant at it, two titles on the best bike, you still have to be the best of the riders with that bike and he has been.
What Pecco isn't, isn't as much of an intuitive rider like MM93, able to ride round issues, able to do things with the bike when its setup isn't 100% and make the crowd go, WoW!
As a factory Ducati rider, the factory would then have two of the best, with contrasting styles, and are more likely to be able to get to the performances every weekend from one or the other if not both.
Add to that MM93 remains the biggest name in MotoGP, like Ferrari signing Hamilton, it's a similar set of circumstances. MM93 has shown already that he'll take the pay cut and the bonuses - the Ducati way - already. Add in the potential sponsorships, personal and for the factory and it makes a lot of sense.
The flip of that is that is it's not difficult to formulate a similar argument for satellite team, another manufacturer or a new spec Ducati bike in a satellite team etc.
I just don't get the impression that the factory want Jorge, Bastia needs to improve his performances ....
Why wouldn't you sign MM93 if you could?
If (big if) Jorge wins the championship, would he get the factory seat, MM93 goes to Pramac on a '25 spec bike.
Marc IS the biggest name in MotoGP still and he has proven to himself and the rest of the world on a decent bike he is up there. I said this months ago when Gresini signed him that Ducati will have a problem, and they have.
He's up there with Pecco and Martin on a year old bike, Gigi clearly likes him (they've tried to secure his services previously lets not forget). Assuming the next few rounds offer the same spectacle and no one end up on the floor because of the other I suspect Marc will be in red. Jorge deserves the seat but I just don't think the way he is going about it is productive. I'm convinced he'll end up at Aprilia given his friendship with Aleix, whether he takes his seat or not is to be determined.
And I very much doubt Ducati would want to lose Marc now they have him and can already see the potential, that coupled with Fermin coming maybe Jorge and Bastiani also are on thin ice.
As for Morbidelli, he's had a rough few years and obviously smashing himself up pre-season was the last thing he needed. Although the results from the weekend and the crash weren't great his lap times were pretty good and the subsequent test on Monday confirmed he's made a step. He's got a few months to confirm to himself and the team if it's enough to hold onto that hot seat, but I'm not sure if he will.
Pedro was very lucky in warm up (causing a red flag lets not forget), he had a stella sprint, so I think he was bashed up and /or his No. 1 bike wasn't right or he had to use the No. 2 bike. I'm sure we will see him at the sharp end again at the next round though.
I'm still not sure the GP24 is the bike to beat though, I think they still have chatter issues, but Jerez is a low grip track so is masking the problem, I guess we will find out soon enough - Pecco was amazing on Sunday, that pass on the outside into dry sac (sorry Pedrosa corner) was amazing, if you've ridden there you'd understand how hard that must have been unsighted also, and the way he just sat on Jorge until his fall. And obviously the way he dealt with Marc (memories of Aragon '21). Probably his best ride in the series so far.
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