Ruining the E39
Discussion
I don't mean this to be a real dig at those keen on modifying their cars but...
I am a big E39 fan. I've just bought my fourth, a 530iA Sport - 80k miles, 2 owners, fsh, full grey leather, electric everything. Under three grand with 11 months MOT and a couple of months tax. Even had half a tank of 99RON in there.
Before that I've had a 528iSE, M5 and 525i Sport. I'm a fan. A big one.
Every single one of mine has been totally stock. Nothing ever upgraded, changed etc. and I still think they look good on the roads today. Dated maybe but not like the looks of the contemporary Mercs, Audis, Volvos etc.
That is until people start tinkering around with them and as far as I'm concerned it takes a spectacularly tiny change to turn a well proportioned autobahn stormer into, well, a nasty chav wagon.
Yesterday I was pootling down to the shops when I saw a guy in an identical car to mine apart from a few little 'mods'. He had a BMW logo on the number plate, the angel eyes changed to pure white rather than the golden glow and larger dished wheels.
IMO it had completely ruined the car. It looked old. Really old. And it looked tatty, the sort of thing you'd see one of these child murderers driving when they're trying to throw the police of their tail with some tv comment before they're an official suspect.
As a stock motor I think they're absolutely tip-top but the tiniest mod can change the nature of the car by a massive margin. I'm struggling to think of any other car that is so easily ruined.
I am a big E39 fan. I've just bought my fourth, a 530iA Sport - 80k miles, 2 owners, fsh, full grey leather, electric everything. Under three grand with 11 months MOT and a couple of months tax. Even had half a tank of 99RON in there.
Before that I've had a 528iSE, M5 and 525i Sport. I'm a fan. A big one.
Every single one of mine has been totally stock. Nothing ever upgraded, changed etc. and I still think they look good on the roads today. Dated maybe but not like the looks of the contemporary Mercs, Audis, Volvos etc.
That is until people start tinkering around with them and as far as I'm concerned it takes a spectacularly tiny change to turn a well proportioned autobahn stormer into, well, a nasty chav wagon.
Yesterday I was pootling down to the shops when I saw a guy in an identical car to mine apart from a few little 'mods'. He had a BMW logo on the number plate, the angel eyes changed to pure white rather than the golden glow and larger dished wheels.
IMO it had completely ruined the car. It looked old. Really old. And it looked tatty, the sort of thing you'd see one of these child murderers driving when they're trying to throw the police of their tail with some tv comment before they're an official suspect.
As a stock motor I think they're absolutely tip-top but the tiniest mod can change the nature of the car by a massive margin. I'm struggling to think of any other car that is so easily ruined.
I agree; it's an unfortunate consequence of when these cars fall into the low value bracket. I saw a E39 today in Surrey that had a lurid lime green paint job with black bonnet, boot (and probably roof) with stripes (in M Sport colours) running up the bonnet, darkened lights front and back, heavily tinted windows all round and been driven like the driver was having a fit.
However it would be very boring if everyone like the same thing. At least the E39 is common enough that there will always be nice, cherished examples out there.
However it would be very boring if everyone like the same thing. At least the E39 is common enough that there will always be nice, cherished examples out there.
Think you have to look at who "aspires" to own old, cheap prestige cars like these. Your stereotype council chav is more likely to want a e36 or e39 than the equivalent merc or Audi as they have the image of somehow being that little bit more sporty hence the silly oversize wheels and stick on bits.
The e39 is just getting too long in the tooth now IMO, it looks it age and you don't tend to look at it and think its a classy car anymore, M5 excluded. My 528 touring was ok, did everything I wanted but it never got under my skin enough to make it feel special.
Each to their own and long may it last....
The e39 is just getting too long in the tooth now IMO, it looks it age and you don't tend to look at it and think its a classy car anymore, M5 excluded. My 528 touring was ok, did everything I wanted but it never got under my skin enough to make it feel special.
Each to their own and long may it last....
NiceCupOfTea said:
BTW, what does the 'A' denote?
It stands for 'awesome',Only joking. It denotes automatic.
Ok, I'm biased but I still think the E39 has got 'it', whatever it is, up to a point. Frankly I can't think of anything that would suit me better for 2900 notes than a 530iA Sport.
Horses/courses and all that, natch.
Hi,
A little 'test' as it were
Everyone has different opinions for the point at which an E39 (or another BMW) is 'ruined'. I know many 'oem only' owners do indeed have a similar/same train of thought as yourself, so I'd like to know from a totally standard car, at which point exactly do a lot of 'oem only' owners consider a modified E39 as 'gone to the dogs' ?!
Is my example ruined?..
How about these?
It'll be interesting to hear views of the PH collective on this
Cheers, Dennis!
A little 'test' as it were
Everyone has different opinions for the point at which an E39 (or another BMW) is 'ruined'. I know many 'oem only' owners do indeed have a similar/same train of thought as yourself, so I'd like to know from a totally standard car, at which point exactly do a lot of 'oem only' owners consider a modified E39 as 'gone to the dogs' ?!
Is my example ruined?..
How about these?
It'll be interesting to hear views of the PH collective on this
Cheers, Dennis!
Edited by DennisCooper on Sunday 16th June 17:04
I don't really want to comment on your own particular car as, as far as I'm concerned, we're all 'car people' here and we should all get along because of that.
However, I think all of the cars below yours loo like asolute cack.
Don't get me wrong, modding is fine in my book, I just think that the E39 in particular suffers badly for it.
However, I think all of the cars below yours loo like asolute cack.
Don't get me wrong, modding is fine in my book, I just think that the E39 in particular suffers badly for it.
Agreed - Yours looks to be done very well but is not really to my taste. I think most of the others are overwheeled.
Looking at one of my own cars, although I have aimed to keep it looking OEM, the lower suspension and bigger wheels have ruined the driveability and I am currently in the process of sourcing some fresh original suspension and getting the standard 15" wheels refurbished.
Looking at one of my own cars, although I have aimed to keep it looking OEM, the lower suspension and bigger wheels have ruined the driveability and I am currently in the process of sourcing some fresh original suspension and getting the standard 15" wheels refurbished.
Hi
It's ok! you can comment on my car - I don't mind at all! From you mentioning the other look cack, I'm 99.5% certain it's what you are thinking of mine
I've been modifying my BMW's since 1990, and they've always been what I and many others think, done with class. All of my modifications are with high quality and genuine products, some of which were/are available via BMW dealerships. Others from the high end BMW tuning specialists and some bits from very well regarded aftermarket specialists with excellent quality products. BMW's can look fantastic with 'just' a modest lowering and a set of oem or high end tuner specialist 1 or 2 inch larger diameter wheels and no other modifications.
In all that time, I've often been told to my face by 'oem only' enthusiasts, that I've 'ruined' my car many many times. I've also had owners of car related businesses see my car arrive and them say 'what right do I have to mess around with the car especially as BMW spent millions developing it' (or words to that effect) a few times too.
As a car enthusiast, I fully and completely understand and appreciate a standard example of a car and the owners often mentioned view 'it's as BMW intended it' when talking with them about it. There is something great about seeing a clean, very well looked after, all original (or as close to) example of any car, not just prestige ones.
What we 'modifiers' very very rarely hear back is the 'oem only' owners returning the same sort of courtesy and instead, it's usually hostile or 'sugar coated hostile' ! I find that a bit unfortunate as like you mention, we're all car enthusiasts. When it comes to some of the more 'extreme' levels of car enthusiasm, especially styling, then I too have a dislike of certain aspects, but I most certainly don't say the things I hear to me, to the owners faces! Over on the enthusiast and modified BMW forums etc, this topic does come up every so often and there are some who do take more 'offence' to when 'oem only' owners say the 'you've ruined it' line but for the most part, it's just shrugged off and put down to a mixture of ignorance/jealousy/negativity. When the topic of bigger wheels comes up and the semi usual guys who say 19's are way too big for an E39, I like to simply point out that's the size Alpina put on as standard/oem for their Alpina V8S models
I'd still like to know generally when 'oem only' guys think an E39 (or others) becomes 'ruined' though !
Cheers, Dennis!
It's ok! you can comment on my car - I don't mind at all! From you mentioning the other look cack, I'm 99.5% certain it's what you are thinking of mine
I've been modifying my BMW's since 1990, and they've always been what I and many others think, done with class. All of my modifications are with high quality and genuine products, some of which were/are available via BMW dealerships. Others from the high end BMW tuning specialists and some bits from very well regarded aftermarket specialists with excellent quality products. BMW's can look fantastic with 'just' a modest lowering and a set of oem or high end tuner specialist 1 or 2 inch larger diameter wheels and no other modifications.
In all that time, I've often been told to my face by 'oem only' enthusiasts, that I've 'ruined' my car many many times. I've also had owners of car related businesses see my car arrive and them say 'what right do I have to mess around with the car especially as BMW spent millions developing it' (or words to that effect) a few times too.
As a car enthusiast, I fully and completely understand and appreciate a standard example of a car and the owners often mentioned view 'it's as BMW intended it' when talking with them about it. There is something great about seeing a clean, very well looked after, all original (or as close to) example of any car, not just prestige ones.
What we 'modifiers' very very rarely hear back is the 'oem only' owners returning the same sort of courtesy and instead, it's usually hostile or 'sugar coated hostile' ! I find that a bit unfortunate as like you mention, we're all car enthusiasts. When it comes to some of the more 'extreme' levels of car enthusiasm, especially styling, then I too have a dislike of certain aspects, but I most certainly don't say the things I hear to me, to the owners faces! Over on the enthusiast and modified BMW forums etc, this topic does come up every so often and there are some who do take more 'offence' to when 'oem only' owners say the 'you've ruined it' line but for the most part, it's just shrugged off and put down to a mixture of ignorance/jealousy/negativity. When the topic of bigger wheels comes up and the semi usual guys who say 19's are way too big for an E39, I like to simply point out that's the size Alpina put on as standard/oem for their Alpina V8S models
I'd still like to know generally when 'oem only' guys think an E39 (or others) becomes 'ruined' though !
Cheers, Dennis!
Dennis, you can see that yours in particular has been well done, no doubt about that at all.
The whole thing is about personal taste. I happen to absolutely hate the Alpina cars, I think they look like cheap aftermarket cack but others love them.
The things in particular that I think really ruin the look of a stock E39, whether SE or Sport, is lowered suspension and massive wheels. To me it works like this:
Stock: MILF
Modded: GILF in a pair of massive white trainers
The whole thing is about personal taste. I happen to absolutely hate the Alpina cars, I think they look like cheap aftermarket cack but others love them.
The things in particular that I think really ruin the look of a stock E39, whether SE or Sport, is lowered suspension and massive wheels. To me it works like this:
Stock: MILF
Modded: GILF in a pair of massive white trainers
I'm sure to get booted out of the bmw thread for not towing the "love the e39 above all else" line, but I think all of those modded cars look great - they have clearly been done well, professionally and probably cost more than the cost of the original car. They certainly breathe life into the old dog......
Just surprised fox hasn't popped on here yet.....
Just surprised fox hasn't popped on here yet.....
mattman said:
Just surprised fox hasn't popped on here yet.....
I like E39's.It used to bother me when I saw ruined E39's. More and more of them. It even contributed in a subconcious way to the decision it was time to leave the E39's behind and go for something much newer. But to be honest there are plenty of badly modified E92's, E60's, even F series cars out there. The E39 isn't alone in that. Once you get over the fact that other people will 'spoil' cars and realise that, actually, as long as they don't spoil yours it doesn't really matter, you'll be much happier.
I do sigh when I see a badly modified one but thats about it. Subtle mods work nicely - some nice wheels, new mirrors perhaps but the trend for enormous dished wheels in sizes larger than ever offered as standard isn't something I really like. Those super dished Style 37's in one of the pictures above are a case in point.
Infact the E39 seems to 'suffer' from this sort of thing far less than other BMW's - the E46 tends to be the car of choice for those who think they know more about suspension geometry than BMW do and think the car isn't complete until it's rolling on 19's lowered to the bump stops with a fake carbon fibre roof and a pretend telephone ariel on the roof, not E39's.
mattman said:
I'm sure to get booted out of the bmw thread for not towing the "love the e39 above all else" line, but I think all of those modded cars look great - they have clearly been done well, professionally and probably cost more than the cost of the original car. They certainly breathe life into the old dog......
Just surprised fox hasn't popped on here yet.....
Agreed, although I'm not really into the bright white Angel Eyes on older cars, and not mad keen on the Breyton Magic wheels either. The silver one with the dishy M-Parallels is nice though. Just surprised fox hasn't popped on here yet.....
I think it boils down to; some people like modded BMs and others don't. One thing I have noticed is when a car is fairly new, people seem to look favourably on modifications, but once the car ages, the 'ruined' comments start. I think as much as anything else it's down to snobbery about money and social class. If someone can afford to fit a £5k Eisenmann system to a 1M it's brilliant, but a Scorpion Cat Back on an E36 is 'chavvy'. With the exception of lowering a car so much the underneath gets damaged, or ruining the arches with DIY rolling and bad wheel fitment, it's not as if most 'questionable' things that are done to these cars can't be reversed, in fact I've seen people take cars that have been made to look terrible with Halfords/eBay tat and put them back to OEM or OEM plus very successfully. If you want to see 'ruined' BMWs look to the Russian, French and Spanish 'tuning' scenes, most UK modifiers are conservative by comparison. It's also worth bearing in mind that to people less into cars they often can't tell the difference between modded and OEM BMWs anyway.
On the E39 I dislike:
Black grills
Stupid alloys
///M badges where there shouldn't be any. (Applies to all BMW's really)
Front bumper is a sport, rear is an SE
Aftermarket headlights, rear lights etc etc
I like:
White angel eye headlights.
Oem sport boot lip spoilers on an SE- doesn't look out of place, very discreet.
Official E39 wheels on models that they don't necessarily belong to- a set of nice sport wheels can work wonders on a pre facelift SE
Seen a few SE's with the Alpina style exhaust cut out, it works well.
The SE is a great looking car to begin with, but it in my opinion can be enhanced by a few discreet changes. Did I ruin mine?
The only thing I plan on doing to the 530 Sport is removing the bar thing in the front bumper, apart from that BMW got it just right.
Black grills
Stupid alloys
///M badges where there shouldn't be any. (Applies to all BMW's really)
Front bumper is a sport, rear is an SE
Aftermarket headlights, rear lights etc etc
I like:
White angel eye headlights.
Oem sport boot lip spoilers on an SE- doesn't look out of place, very discreet.
Official E39 wheels on models that they don't necessarily belong to- a set of nice sport wheels can work wonders on a pre facelift SE
Seen a few SE's with the Alpina style exhaust cut out, it works well.
The SE is a great looking car to begin with, but it in my opinion can be enhanced by a few discreet changes. Did I ruin mine?
The only thing I plan on doing to the 530 Sport is removing the bar thing in the front bumper, apart from that BMW got it just right.
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