Potential dodgy cooker electrics found?
Discussion
This afternoon, I had a message from my wife that the oven had stopped working and that the oven switch on the wall felt hot. It didn't trip the electric out.
When I got home I pulled the front plate forward on the wall switch (unfused) to find the neutral wire (to the cooker) had come loose from the connector and was burnt.
It appears that the cable to the cooker is a thick flex, with individual wires made up of tiny wire strands.
I'm no electrical expert by any means but I was expecting a big thick proper cooker cable, with solid core wires.
The supply cable is the normal thick, solid core job
Am I correct in thinking that this is a dodgy installation? Its been like this for at least 7 years, since moving in.
Should I be ripping this out or is it normal for an electric oven to have a flex type cable?
I've cut the cable back to clean wire and reinstalled it securely. It is switched off!
Its an Elba Excellence, a big wide single electric oven and a 6 gas ring hob
When I got home I pulled the front plate forward on the wall switch (unfused) to find the neutral wire (to the cooker) had come loose from the connector and was burnt.
It appears that the cable to the cooker is a thick flex, with individual wires made up of tiny wire strands.
I'm no electrical expert by any means but I was expecting a big thick proper cooker cable, with solid core wires.
The supply cable is the normal thick, solid core job
Am I correct in thinking that this is a dodgy installation? Its been like this for at least 7 years, since moving in.
Should I be ripping this out or is it normal for an electric oven to have a flex type cable?
I've cut the cable back to clean wire and reinstalled it securely. It is switched off!
Its an Elba Excellence, a big wide single electric oven and a 6 gas ring hob
Probably a factory fitted high temperature flex, it's surprising to know that a multi core cable has a higher current carrying capacity than a solid one, eg supply cable is probably a 6mm twin and earth cable but the multi core flex is probably 4mm, both are capable of carrying the same amount of current.
HTH
HTH
x 7usc said:
Probably a factory fitted high temperature flex, it's surprising to know that a multi core cable has a higher current carrying capacity than a solid one, eg supply cable is probably a 6mm twin and earth cable but the multi core flex is probably 4mm, both are capable of carrying the same amount of current.
HTH
Does this means that the thick flex to the cooker is probably a factory fit item and it ok?HTH
Could the burn out be caused by a loose/poor connection at the cooker neutral connector?
iamrcb said:
Does this means that the thick flex to the cooker is probably a factory fit item and it ok?
Could the burn out be caused by a loose/poor connection at the cooker neutral connector?
Yes I recon so, the outer sheath is usually black and all the insulation on the cables should have a rubbery feel to them as it should be a rubber insulated.Could the burn out be caused by a loose/poor connection at the cooker neutral connector?
The burn is probably from exactly that, any loose connection will start to arc, which will cause the heat, and burn through some of the strands thus making it worse, if you are any good with a soldering iron or know someone who is you can solder the strands at the end as this makes for a more solid connection.
It can be quite hard to 'catch' a stranded wire properly in its terminal, especially in a cooker connector which will have quite large terminals.
As suggested above, solder it if you can.
You can get crimp connectors too:
What a lot of people do though is just strip twice as much, twist the conductor, and then double it back on itself.
As suggested above, solder it if you can.
You can get crimp connectors too:
What a lot of people do though is just strip twice as much, twist the conductor, and then double it back on itself.
x 7usc said:
Yes I recon so, the outer sheath is usually black and all the insulation on the cables should have a rubbery feel to them as it should be a rubber insulated.
The burn is probably from exactly that, any loose connection will start to arc, which will cause the heat, and burn through some of the strands thus making it worse, if you are any good with a soldering iron or know someone who is you can solder the strands at the end as this makes for a more solid connection.
It's white. The wires are about 2mm dia.The burn is probably from exactly that, any loose connection will start to arc, which will cause the heat, and burn through some of the strands thus making it worse, if you are any good with a soldering iron or know someone who is you can solder the strands at the end as this makes for a more solid connection.
When I opened it up, I had to remove a bunch of wire fragments from the switch connector so it may not have been "loose".
Edited by iamrcb on Friday 17th May 22:41
iamrcb said:
It's white. The wires are about 2mm dia.
When I opened it up, I had to remove a bunch of wire fragments from the switch connector so it may not have been "loose".
I still think you should change the cable to the solid ones,much safer IMHO.When I opened it up, I had to remove a bunch of wire fragments from the switch connector so it may not have been "loose".
Edited by iamrcb on Friday 17th May 22:41
A single thick wire will not fragment like the ones above.
iamrcb said:
x 7usc said:
Yes I recon so, the outer sheath is usually black and all the insulation on the cables should have a rubbery feel to them as it should be a rubber insulated.
The burn is probably from exactly that, any loose connection will start to arc, which will cause the heat, and burn through some of the strands thus making it worse, if you are any good with a soldering iron or know someone who is you can solder the strands at the end as this makes for a more solid connection.
It's white. The wires are about 2mm dia.The burn is probably from exactly that, any loose connection will start to arc, which will cause the heat, and burn through some of the strands thus making it worse, if you are any good with a soldering iron or know someone who is you can solder the strands at the end as this makes for a more solid connection.
When I opened it up, I had to remove a bunch of wire fragments from the switch connector so it may not have been "loose".
Edited by iamrcb on Friday 17th May 22:41
A 4mm cooker flex has an overall diameter of the outer sheath of 13mm.
As said above the load is not that great on just an oven, some single standard ovens even come with a 13a fused standard plug.
Am I right in thinking the Elba Excellence is a range cooker, 6 gas burners and 1 single oven?
If so it will not require a large CSA cable, 2.5mm2 maybe even a 1.5mm2. A higher temp cable is a good idea, but shouldn't be getting very hot.
Rather than guessing, a quick search for the Elba website, look up the exact product and download the instructions, assuming you haven't already got them, then look in the installation section. This will specify the size of cable required or at least tell you the current carrying requirement.
And in answer to the OP original problem, if this problem has only come to light after 7 years, then I'd be pretty certain it is down to a connection becoming loose over time, rather than an incorrect sized cable. But please do check the manufacturers data, rather than rely on the guess work of other diyers.
If so it will not require a large CSA cable, 2.5mm2 maybe even a 1.5mm2. A higher temp cable is a good idea, but shouldn't be getting very hot.
Rather than guessing, a quick search for the Elba website, look up the exact product and download the instructions, assuming you haven't already got them, then look in the installation section. This will specify the size of cable required or at least tell you the current carrying requirement.
And in answer to the OP original problem, if this problem has only come to light after 7 years, then I'd be pretty certain it is down to a connection becoming loose over time, rather than an incorrect sized cable. But please do check the manufacturers data, rather than rely on the guess work of other diyers.
creationracing said:
If you've put them together using a combination of solder and choccy block, then yes you most certainly are! ha ha!
Ah, your familiar with my work. I would like to see any evidence that solder stays liquid at room temperature. I have heard it said about glass and that's b
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