RE: VW To Use Audi Cash To Buy Porsche
Monday 3rd August 2009
Audi earnings will help VW buy theseAudi's recent financial success - it is expecting to post a strong operating profit for 2009 - will help parent company VW to find the funds to pay for its takeover of Porsche.
VW To Use Audi Cash To Buy Porsche
Audi's big cash reserves boost VW coffers; Porsche under pressure to reduce debt
Audi earnings will help VW buy these
More than three-quarters of the VW Group's 12.3 billion euros (£10.4bn) of liquid funds come from Audi's coffers.
But while Porsche's future owners appear to have no worries over money, Porsche's current shareholders - which include members of the Porsche family and VW chairman Ferdinand Piech - are under intense financial pressure.
The CEO of Deutsche Bank, Josef Ackermann, told German magazine Der Spiegel on Saturday that Porsche's owners need urgently to inject some serious cash into the company to control the level of debt, which has reportedly spiralled to 14 billion euros, up from 9.4 billion euros in January.
Porsche announced last week that it would increase its capital by at least 5 billion euros prior to its planned merger with VW, but Ackermann suggested that would not be enough to cover Porsche's pressing financial obligations.
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
I'm so confused.
Porsche were buying VAG not so long ago weren't they?
So where has the debt come from? Porsche got in debt buying a chunk of VAG!?
The back-story to this needs clarifying in the article as I am totally lost now.
Dave
Keep up Whippy! This news story has been running for ages, just do some reading of the old news on here.Porsche were buying VAG not so long ago weren't they?
So where has the debt come from? Porsche got in debt buying a chunk of VAG!?
The back-story to this needs clarifying in the article as I am totally lost now.
Dave
Something like
Porsche buys 49% share in VW
Porsche buys 70% share in VW but at a gamble
Porsche seeks Government financial support
Middle East company offer Porsche the funds - not sure what happened to this?
Porsche in trouble
VW buys majority share of Porsche
Audi gets upset because they aren't in the news too....
They don't sound too bright do they?
Porsche buys 49% share in VW
Porsche buys 70% share in VW but at a gamble
Porsche seeks Government financial support
Middle East company offer Porsche the funds - not sure what happened to this?
Porsche in trouble
VW buys majority share of Porsche
Audi gets upset because they aren't in the news too....
They don't sound too bright do they?
i thought the actual problemt was that worksop borough council or whatever they're called own a share of veedub. porsche were banking on them allowing the takeover (after porsche had done one over all their own customers at the hedge funds). they didn't. so then porsche were stuck with a load of debt and shares and the price of the debt was rising or something and at this point i rather lost the will to live. and it was probably not like that in the first place.
If there is not something illegal going on some where in all this mess I am a monkeys uncle.
Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
Frimley111R said:
Mr Whippy said:
I'm so confused.
Porsche were buying VAG not so long ago weren't they?
So where has the debt come from? Porsche got in debt buying a chunk of VAG!?
The back-story to this needs clarifying in the article as I am totally lost now.
Dave
Keep up Whippy! This news story has been running for ages, just do some reading of the old news on here.Porsche were buying VAG not so long ago weren't they?
So where has the debt come from? Porsche got in debt buying a chunk of VAG!?
The back-story to this needs clarifying in the article as I am totally lost now.
Dave
Dave
[quote=briSk]i thought the actual problemt was that worksop borough council or whatever they're called own a share of veedub.
Crikey thats cool, are they shifting the factory next to B&Q just off the Retford Road...if so I could get some spy shots for the next new model ! Also they could bulldoze Worksop full stop and build a replica of the 'Ring too test all the new cars on .....sounds a plan to me
Crikey thats cool, are they shifting the factory next to B&Q just off the Retford Road...if so I could get some spy shots for the next new model ! Also they could bulldoze Worksop full stop and build a replica of the 'Ring too test all the new cars on .....sounds a plan to me
briSk said:
i thought the actual problemt was that worksop borough council or whatever they're called own a share of veedub. porsche were banking on them allowing the takeover (after porsche had done one over all their own customers at the hedge funds). they didn't. so then porsche were stuck with a load of debt and shares and the price of the debt was rising or something and at this point i rather lost the will to live. and it was probably not like that in the first place.
Worksop! Now there's a s
thole I've not been to in a while.leon9191 said:
If there is not something illegal going on some where in all this mess I am a monkeys uncle.
Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
Yes, they were planning to get the money from VW, either as a dividend or as a loan. So long as all shareholders were treated equally, it wouldn't have been a problem. Since they owned the majority of VW shares outright, you would think that they would have been able to make that happen, but Germany had to change a law first. It became a political issue, and Germany changed the law in "wrong" way. Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
It would really help if any of the journalists could actually refer to the companies involved in a descriptive enough way to show the differences between them.
Porsche "holding" (which owns Porsche "cars" and several other Porsche branded businesses) were the ones trying to buy out VW using a combination of direct and indirect share and option purchases during a boom time for Porsche. Tightening lending markets and the retention of the anti-competitive controlling share in VW held by one of the German states has now foiled the last stage of the plan for VW to become another Porsche "holding" subsidiary.
So, the 9-14bn of debt exists with Porsche "holding", not any of the branded companies, which is why at one point "holding" was planning to sell one or more of these smaller companies, to pay it down. Alternatively, there were moves to get the Middle Eastern money in to pay it down too. Now it seems the position is so tight that the only viable financial option is some kind of sale to VW (because of the same historical family links with Porsche that led to the situation in the first place). This definitely includes Porsche "cars", but maybe even the entirety of the "holding" company and all its other assets.
The reporting has become so lazy that without exploring the german or detailed financial media it is unclear what VW are actually buying now and means that anyone not paying close attention remains extremely confused, as above.
Porsche "holding" (which owns Porsche "cars" and several other Porsche branded businesses) were the ones trying to buy out VW using a combination of direct and indirect share and option purchases during a boom time for Porsche. Tightening lending markets and the retention of the anti-competitive controlling share in VW held by one of the German states has now foiled the last stage of the plan for VW to become another Porsche "holding" subsidiary.
So, the 9-14bn of debt exists with Porsche "holding", not any of the branded companies, which is why at one point "holding" was planning to sell one or more of these smaller companies, to pay it down. Alternatively, there were moves to get the Middle Eastern money in to pay it down too. Now it seems the position is so tight that the only viable financial option is some kind of sale to VW (because of the same historical family links with Porsche that led to the situation in the first place). This definitely includes Porsche "cars", but maybe even the entirety of the "holding" company and all its other assets.
The reporting has become so lazy that without exploring the german or detailed financial media it is unclear what VW are actually buying now and means that anyone not paying close attention remains extremely confused, as above.
Edited by dukest on Monday 3rd August 15:20
leon9191 said:
If there is not something illegal going on some where in all this mess I am a monkeys uncle.
Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
You are a monkey's uncle, unfortunately.Surely Porsche would have been in just as much debt if they had managed to buy VW (minus the interest they must be paying which I imagine must account for the jump from 9 to 14 billion euro debt) so what were they planning on doing? Using VW money to pay their loan back? That has got to be a big no-no?
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