Help - metal filings throughout fuel system!

[MarkGArgyle]

Hi all,

Looking for advice especially from BMW dealership folk if possible. 2014 F31 320d, 66k miles out of warranty and BMW services from new. Long story short; high pressure fuel pump let go filling system with what I describe as iron filings, blocking injectors and causing a breakdown on Saturday. No clue why this happened and BMW confirm no outstanding recalls for this issue.

Car will be taken to my nearest dealer (60miles) for diagnosis but after the following;

1. Rough cost to replace injectors, rail, fuel pipes, tank etc at a franchise?

2. I want BMW to take (significant) responsibility for this with goodwill - anyone had this issue and result?

3. Best way to secure #2 happens (was looking at a <1yr X5 so already taking to the sales guy to support)

4. Any other advice to get it sorted for least possible cost with future warranty in the event that bits are missed and I have the same issue in a few month?

People of Pistonheads please help me secure my children get some Christmas presents this year!

Thanks

Mark

[helix402]

MarkGArgyle said:

Hi all,

Looking for advice especially from BMW dealership folk if possible. 2014 F31 320d, 66k miles out of warranty and BMW services from new. Long story short; high pressure fuel pump let go filling system with what I describe as iron filings, blocking injectors and causing a breakdown on Saturday. No clue why this happened and BMW confirm no outstanding recalls for this issue.

Car will be taken to my nearest dealer (60miles) for diagnosis but after the following;

1. Rough cost to replace injectors, rail, fuel pipes, tank etc at a franchise?

At a quick guesstimate 3k min. Used to be 2k min for a misfuel at dealer prices 15 years ago.

2. I want BMW to take (significant) responsibility for this with goodwill - anyone had this issue and result?

Sorry, no experience as a customer. But the full main dealer history will increase the chances, as will your relationship with the service advisor.

3. Best way to secure #2 happens (was looking at a <1yr X5 so already taking to the sales guy to support)

See 2

4. Any other advice to get it sorted for least possible cost with future warranty in the event that bits are missed and I have the same issue in a few month?

4. When it’s fixed consider 10k miles/annual fuel filter change.

People of Pistonheads please help me secure my children get some Christmas presents this year!

Thanks

Mark

[autohead]

The car was probably at one stage filled with petrol or contaminated fuel. This causes wear as diesel lubricated fuel system components and petrol doesn't.

In garages I have worked at the repair has been paid for by the car insurance as the total costs are in the thousands.

Edited by autohead on Thursday 12th December 21:36

[stevemcs]

Good luck, and i would guess at BMW prices 5-6 grand

[Jabba1977]

autohead said:

The car was probably at one stage filled with petrol or contaminated fuel. This causes wear as diesel lubricated fuel system components and petrol doesn't.

In garages I have worked at the repair has been paid for by the car insurance as the total costs are in the thousands.

Edited by autohead on Thursday 12th December 21:36

I would have to agree with this - this is likely down to external factors rather than any manufacturing defect so you really are reliant on BMW goodwill based on you demonstrating loyalty having the car serviced within the retailer network.

However, your car is outside any normal goodwill parameters so you have to be very realistic with your expectations. The poster above is spot on about working the relationship with the service advisor - be calm and polite, and just ask for their help based on your loyalty. Don’t be pushy or demanding - you need their help to push for the best outcome.

If they get you a sensible conclusion then email their manager thanking them for their assistance - if the invoice has not yet been produced it may curry further favour.

Hope all goes well.

[sunbeam alpine]

I've recovered 2 cars which have broken down with this problem. It IS a known problem (certainly in BMW garages here in Belgium) with the 2 litre diesel engine

In one case the car was written off (cost to repair was more than the car was worth). In the other, the car was under warranty, but the garage offered a replacement car.

Sorry it's not better news.

There was a thread not so long ago - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[MarkGArgyle]

Thanks for replies and some good advice there; reinforces what I thought but good to know I am on the right track. Will come back and update how I get on for others.

[MarkGArgyle]

Short update - fuel system is condemned and BMW want >£8k for replacing everything from tank through to injectors....

They will take a fuel sample for analysis and come back next week before discussing with BMW.


Merry Christmas

[stevemcs]

I'd be having the pump replaced, the fuel filter replaced, the tank dropped and cleaned and the fuel lines washed through. But i guess it depends how far the metal has got. I would have hoped the fuel filter stopped any metal hitting the injectors

[Elliot2000]

stevemcs said:

I'd be having the pump replaced, the fuel filter replaced, the tank dropped and cleaned and the fuel lines washed through. But i guess it depends how far the metal has got. I would have hoped the fuel filter stopped any metal hitting the injectors

It’s normally the high pressure pump that starts destroying themselves and throwing out metal swarf - which is already after the filter - only place for the swarf to go is the common rail, reg valves and injectors.
They do have gauze strainers on the volume control valve and the pressure valve so would guess the amount returning to the tank and low pressure side would be quite small

[MarkGArgyle]

Elliot2000 said:

It’s normally the high pressure pump that starts destroying themselves and throwing out metal swarf - which is already after the filter - only place for the swarf to go is the common rail, reg valves and injectors.
They do have gauze strainers on the volume control valve and the pressure valve so would guess the amount returning to the tank and low pressure side would be quite small

This....

Suspect it is the HPFP which produced the swarf that blocked injectors and caused the breakdown in the first place

[Touring442]

This has NOTHING to do with fuel. If that were the case then older M47 pumps and all those fitted to Mercs, Audis etc would also fail. They don't.

The problem is that the pump is a crap design. The old pumps had a simple 'bucket' that operated on the pump cam. Bosch clearly decided that this was too simple and reliable so they improved it by adding a rotating steel roller on the base of the bucket to operate across the width of the cam lobe. Sadly, the genius involved forgot to design the bucket so that the roller is always operating across the width of the cam. As a result, the bucket can turn in its bore through 90 degrees, therefore placing all the pressure on about 2-3 mm in the centre of the cam. Once it's been running in that position for a short time, it begins to wear a trough in the centre of the cam lobe and the roller cannot revert to the correct position. All the steel shavings go direct to the injectors, destroying them whilst the other shavings are pumped back to the tank for it all to begin again.

It's like something BL might have designed. It's an increasingly common problem. There is an article about this problem in the current BMW Car mag with some interesting photos.

Edited by Touring442 on Tuesday 24th December 15:49

Edited by Touring442 on Tuesday 24th December 16:02

[Touring442]

I should add; you can get the system repaired for about £1500. Good used injectors, Bosch recon pump, good used rail and in tank pump, blow the rails through with petrol/brake cleaner and compressed air and completely drain and clean the tank out. New fuel filter and job done.

Of course BMW won't admit to any responsibility, that's par for the course.

[xjay1337]

It's always worth buying the BMW Insured warranty.

Around £30 a month.

No help now, I appreciate.

But in the future, or to others reading.

[Gary C]

This fault effectively wrote our neighbours car off.

Cost of stripping, replacing and flushing was almost as much as the car was worth and it didn't drive right even after the work had been done.

[MarkGArgyle]

Final update; independent testing showed a problem with the diesel and as a result neither BMW nor insurance will cover it so it is out of my pocket. After a negotiation with BMW they knocked a grand off, will throw in the brake fluid service and gave me a surprisingly fun 118i for the duration.

Lesson learned, I would have been gutted if the insurance wrote it off as it is a great car with low miles so will just keep it for another year until the X5 comes down further in price or the new X3 is released.

Thanks for input all...

[stevemcs]

I guess you cannot go after the fuel company then ? Was it supermarket diesel or unleaded they found ?

[xjay1337]

stevemcs said:

I guess you cannot go after the fuel company then ? Was it supermarket diesel or unleaded they found ?

Yup that's what I would be doing, if the "problem is with the diesel"....

[Touring442]

MarkGArgyle said:

Final update; independent testing showed a problem with the diesel and as a result neither BMW nor insurance will cover it so it is out of my pocket. After a negotiation with BMW they knocked a grand off, will throw in the brake fluid service and gave me a surprisingly fun 118i for the duration.

Lesson learned, I would have been gutted if the insurance wrote it off as it is a great car with low miles so will just keep it for another year until the X5 comes down further in price or the new X3 is released.

Thanks for input all...

Ask to see the old diesel pump with the top bit removed - four Torx screws and 5 minutes. Take a copy of BMW Car mag with you. There's no reason they can refuse. If your pump has gone the way off the one above, it's the pump that's NFG.

[Elliot2000]

Tbf, whilst the result of the roller bearing and cam is a known issue - all it takes is for the pump to be run with a small amount of petrol or contaminated fuel to reduce the lubrication in the the pump enough to cause the smallest of flat spots on the roller bearing - and from then onwards it will just wear away and destroy itself .

It’s undoubtedly a weakness - but if they found An issue with the fuel then they can justify saying the fault was caused by that.