RE: Land Rover previews 'most capable electric SUV'
Thursday 28th November
Land Rover previews 'most capable electric SUV'
The new Range Rover Electric is imminent. Its maker reckons it has endured the 'most intensive testing ever'
Whatever the Range Rover, it has to be formidably capable off-road. Doesn’t matter if it’s an SVR or an Evoque Convertible, if a car carries that badge then it has to be more than adept off the beaten track. Much more. Which is why the new Range Rover Electric is currently being put to the ultimate test in the United Arab Emirates.
The UAE is a familiar hot weather testing location of course - because nowhere else is quite so inhospitable. There are temps beyond 50 degrees and humidity above 90 per cent in some places, just for starters - the perfect conditions to really push the cooling capabilities for occupants and battery. The first fully electrified Range Rover is underpinned by a new thermal management system, which has apparently performed in ‘exemplary’ style when subjected to prolonged desert driving and extended runs around the city. Naturally Land Rover wasn't likely to publicise it not working well, but it’s reassuring to know that the EV will happily cope with a hot week or two in Sandbanks next summer.
Plus there’s the off-roading to think about, which can also be extensively tested in the UAE. ‘Big Red’ is a famous dune in the Al Badayer desert, claimed to be Dubai’s greatest desert hill climb and a test that all Range Rovers must complete as part of their development. The exact requirement is five ascents of the 90m dune without any impact on performance, before immediately moving on to the next task.
Apparently the Electric ‘completed the feat with flying colours’. Marking your own homework again, yes, but enough Range Rovers have defied belief with their off-road ability now that simply equalling the past is significant. Something called Intelligent Torque Management helps the Electric out, the new tech (with wheel slip management incorporated into drive units) reducing reaction time from a yawning 100 milliseconds to just one millisecond. So even less excuse for getting stuck, basically.
Thomas Müller, Product Engineering Exec Director, said: “A hot climate is one of the most challenging for any battery electric vehicle, because of the need to cool the cabin and optimise battery performance at the same time. The additional challenge of driving on sand requires controlled low-speed torque, so our specially developed traction control and thermal management systems work in harmony to ensure power delivery is unaffected. Our tests have shown that in this climate, repeatedly driving the equivalent of 100 metres uphill on fine sand, Range Rover Electric matches the performance of its ICE equivalents; in some instances, even surpassing them – thanks to the introduction of these new features.”
So perhaps this will be the new best 4x4xfar, if we’re allowed to mix up our marketing messages. We’ll know for certain come next year.
Discussion
In before the naysayers -
the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
Mercutio said:
In before the naysayers -
the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
You are right. We should ban trucks, buses and all heavy vehicles, like electric range rovers, from our roads. Potholes are all their fault. the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
Not everyone who gets a new car is freaked out about depreciation. It's part of the cost of getting a brand new vehicle, especially when it's a newly released model.
Official range is likely to be around 400 miles. Real world in cold weather who knows, but at end of the day, those who get a Range Rover are likely to have access to other cars. JLR are commercially savvy, and know their target market well. They are not going to produce a crap electric Range Rover.
raspy said:
You are right. We should ban trucks, buses and all heavy vehicles, like electric range rovers, from our roads. Potholes are all their fault.
Not everyone who gets a new car is freaked out about depreciation. It's part of the cost of getting a brand new vehicle, especially when it's a newly released model.
Official range is likely to be around 400 miles. Real world in cold weather who knows, but at end of the day, those who get a Range Rover are likely to have access to other cars. JLR are commercially savvy , and know their target market well. They are not going to produce a crap electric Range Rover.
Well, LR isNot everyone who gets a new car is freaked out about depreciation. It's part of the cost of getting a brand new vehicle, especially when it's a newly released model.
Official range is likely to be around 400 miles. Real world in cold weather who knows, but at end of the day, those who get a Range Rover are likely to have access to other cars. JLR are commercially savvy , and know their target market well. They are not going to produce a crap electric Range Rover.
aston addict said:
Hope they did a similar amount of testing in cold climes as well…
They popped up to the Arctic Circle earlier this year. https://media.landrover.com/news/2024/04/all-range...
Mercutio said:
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
Luxury vehicles with tax incentives to buy them always depreciate heavily.Why would anyone with a business who could justify this as a business expense not write this off against their taxable income for less money than a second hand one? Why would anyone employed in a high income 6 figure job (where the first digit isn't a "1") not get a Salary Sacrifice lease out of their untaxed income for less money than a second hand nearly-new car out of their taxed income?
This is why BMW i8s had savage depreciation, why Porsche Taycans do now, and any large electric vehicles will while tax relief is structured in this way and doesn't reward people for choosing electric second hand cars.
The cars will therefore depreciate savagely to the level where it's worth it to a second hand buyer, and then depreciate much more slowly.
So new buyers won't care, and buyers in three years will have a more slowly depreciating car.
blearyeyedboy said:
Why would anyone employed in a high income 6 figure job (where the first digit isn't a "1") not get a Salary Sacrifice lease out of their untaxed income for less money than a second hand nearly-new car out of their taxed income?
It’s not actually that easy to set ^^^ up in small/mid-sized firms unaccustomed to running a fleet of cars. Looked at it for a handful of Taycans and it had the potential to be quite complex (not to mention divisive with other staff). Still no word on what it will tow… maybe not an issue for those in town, but it is for some out in the country.
Presumably there is potential for much improved reliability too. If they have bought off the shelf batteries and motors and got rid of chocolate crankshafts, complicated locking diff’s ands transfer cases etc and just replaced them with a motor on each wheel that could be a major bonus.
Cold said:
aston addict said:
Hope they did a similar amount of testing in cold climes as well…
They popped up to the Arctic Circle earlier this year. https://media.landrover.com/news/2024/04/all-range...
Anyone who's driven an EV will tell you the main tests are Cold temps and sustained high speed.
If it will do 350 motorway miles at -5°C, that would be well worth the press pages IMHO.
The article said:
The UAE is a familiar hot weather testing location of course - because nowhere else is quite so inhospitable. There are temps beyond 50 degrees and humidity above 90 per cent in some places, just for starters
Needs a bit of finessing, that. Right now, it's 11:34 in Abu Dhabi and the temperature's just climbing above 30, probably peaking later around 32. And it's like that for six months of the year. More like "nowhere else is quite so hospitable". As they say round here, it's half a year of heaven, half a year of hell.But they get photos of dune-bashing and camels, so that's OK, If they'd filmed a few months earlier they'd have probably got some sandworms in too.
Mercutio said:
In before the naysayers -
the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
Weight is certainly going to freak some punters out. It's a problem that can only be solved by time as battery densities continue to improve. In the last ten years this change has been immense and we've seen pack sizes and so weight get smaller and smaller. the order book for this thing will be staggering. Along with the electric G Wagen, it is the perfect vehicle for the seriously rich to go about in the car of their choice (well upholstered tank) while immediately being able to point to electric if anyone argues.
It’s the perfect vehicle for anyone in the metropolitan elite who has no need for the capabilities the car offers, but historically have been obsessed with the image of the vehicle in terms of ride height and comfort, and as a statement of wealth.
So now they can technically make this choice guilt free.
If I had the money and really, really wouldn’t notice it gone, then I’d be in the market for one.
And the order book must be bulging already - this thing will sell like hotcakes to people who won’t even consider what could be steep depreciation over time. They just want to be the first in an electric Range Rover.
However, some things concern me
• What on earth will be the weight of this thing - surely beyond three tonnes? Is this weight race really any good for our roads? Surely some of the potholes and increased problems on our roads are coming from heavier vehicles.
• If an ICE Range Rover depreciates heavily anyway, what will this thing do? I can imagine it will sell at over list price for two years while the flippers make hay, but in a couple of years time once it’s available at list, will it drop significantly after three years of ownership? Will anyone care I guess if it’s leased?
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle. My opinion probably doesn’t count for much considering that if the vehicle is typically driven at its furthest from Kensington to Kingham or Battersea to Berkshire, then does it really matter? But this again reinforces the stereotype of the vehicle as an urban luxury runaround, which is just peak overconsumption. At least the D350 will still be there for those who want to get up and down the country etc.
The core issue is that 'weight' has mainly become one of the battle cries of the religious defenders of yore. Then the new religious order retorts with their cry of 'regen' The cries are hurled forth regardless as soon as certain things appear but at least with this Rangie it'll probably actually be pertinent.
The short answer is that there are very few EVs on the planet v ICE and that isn't going to change for many decades and while that number goes from a tiny few to a few more so the efficiency of how we store energy will incrementally improve.
Depreciation is one of those weird things as it's only relevant the poorer the person is and the more they have stretched themselves to get the use of something way beyond their conventional income bracket's sensible remit. Just think logically for a moment, exactly what type of person thinks or worries about what an object they're using is going to be worth tomorrow? And if one is worried then just lock it in and forget about it.
Almost every acquisition of a car like this is via a rental contract where any depreciation is set in stone in advance so when the loan agreement is being signed that individual has overtly agreed to the level of depreciation and is 100% happy with it.
The second user of the vehicle, 2, 3, 4 years down the line obviously benefits from the greatest depreciation possible.
And then, of course, these are objects where the value is on a trend to zero so who really cares?
Who does care? Well it's become a thing that some are utterly obsessed by. Why are some people suddenly consumed by the daily value of a depreciating object? Well, because despite what they will argue it's it because they've either not understood the terms of their rental, they've borrowed way more than they should have or they are some kind of screaming mentalist who wants to pay more than they need to for their cars.
And who sold this new wave of punters on the whole 'be scared if depreciation' mind control illness? Well we know don't we, it's been programmed into them by the folks who sell them their car credit. These consumers have not only believed the words of the nylon bag wearing debt pedlars but gone fully devout.
Depreciation is great. We want it as big and as fast as possible.
Now for range. It's not going to match a diesel that's for sure. I guess they'll have done their best to get it aligned to the V8 petrol. But shoving this enormous brick through the air at 90 on the motorway is going to give you an effective range that is catastrophic and you are selling at a price point where no one pays money to have motorway services in their life but the exact opposite. You use your money to comprehensively get away from these things. Like using a drive thru so you don't have to go inside and see people struggling to eat a chip.
So this is a car that will be used in the urban and suburban environment and beyond that it's going to be limited to going to a destination that's around 100-150 miles out and that destination will hav someone to put a plug in the car to set it up for the run home whenever that is.
Is that going to be restrictive? Not really at that price point. If you live in a city with increasing ICE restrictions then the EV version of what you want to use daily and locally fits better and is also more refined and easier to refuel as plugs are now more common than petrol stations and a huge number of those people really don't travel that far at all by car. The ones that do will either not buy this or have other cars.
In terms of the lifestyle of the type of customer with the income and lifestyle to use this not easily than the diesel, range, weight, depreciation aren't issues any more than they are to any normal person who isn't trapped on the 'must have' consumer treadmill and bleeding themselves to death on a debt spiral.
Desiboy said:
raspy said:
You are right. We should ban trucks, buses and all heavy vehicles, like electric range rovers, from our roads. Potholes are all their fault.
Not everyone who gets a new car is freaked out about depreciation. It's part of the cost of getting a brand new vehicle, especially when it's a newly released model.
Official range is likely to be around 400 miles. Real world in cold weather who knows, but at end of the day, those who get a Range Rover are likely to have access to other cars. JLR are commercially savvy , and know their target market well. They are not going to produce a crap electric Range Rover.
Well, LR isNot everyone who gets a new car is freaked out about depreciation. It's part of the cost of getting a brand new vehicle, especially when it's a newly released model.
Official range is likely to be around 400 miles. Real world in cold weather who knows, but at end of the day, those who get a Range Rover are likely to have access to other cars. JLR are commercially savvy , and know their target market well. They are not going to produce a crap electric Range Rover.
DonkeyApple said:
Depreciation is one of those weird things as it's only relevant the poorer the person is and the more they have stretched themselves to get the use of something way beyond their conventional income bracket's sensible remit. Just think logically for a moment, exactly what type of person thinks or worries about what an object they're using is going to be worth tomorrow? And if one is worried then just lock it in and forget about it.
Depreciation contributes to the overall cost of the a product. Cost is integral to the value equation. There will be many RR purchasers with a keen eye on value… no sense in needlessly frittering it away. Doesn’t have to be any worry involved for a purchase to not deliver value. Of course those who simply must be seen in/with the latest thing won’t care as, to them, that is part of the value.
ducnick said:
Presumably there is potential for much improved reliability too. If they have bought off the shelf batteries and motors and got rid of chocolate crankshafts, complicated locking diff’s ands transfer cases etc and just replaced them with a motor on each wheel that could be a major bonus.
You'd put the unreliability back into the product via the programming. You can easily use programming to replicate heritage characteristics. Maintaining brand values is essential. Mercutio said:
• Range is also my biggest concern. Traditionally you could go 500-600 miles + in a six cylinder diesel on one tank. If this thing promises let’s say 350 miles on one charge, but in cold weather that comes out at 270 miles… for me that’s a real blow to the image and capability proposition of the vehicle.
That has always been my biggest niggle with EVs as well, and I don't understand why folk would want to go backwards when it comes to range in a car. However I guess that if you have the money to buy this though, then you'll have other cars in your fleet that have a good range already though, so if this was only capable of going around the block on a full charge in the winter...then it wouldn't really matter anyway really. LooneyTunes said:
DonkeyApple said:
Depreciation is one of those weird things as it's only relevant the poorer the person is and the more they have stretched themselves to get the use of something way beyond their conventional income bracket's sensible remit. Just think logically for a moment, exactly what type of person thinks or worries about what an object they're using is going to be worth tomorrow? And if one is worried then just lock it in and forget about it.
Depreciation contributes to the overall cost of the a product. Cost is integral to the value equation. There will be many RR purchasers with a keen eye on value… no sense in needlessly frittering it away. Doesn’t have to be any worry involved for a purchase to not deliver value. Of course those who simply must be seen in/with the latest thing won’t care as, to them, that is part of the value.
T1berious said:
^This^
Anyone who's driven an EV will tell you the main tests are Cold temps and sustained high speed.
If it will do 350 motorway miles at -5°C, that would be well worth the press pages IMHO.
Unless they've fitted a 150 kWh battery to it I'd say that's unlikely at 70 mph.Anyone who's driven an EV will tell you the main tests are Cold temps and sustained high speed.
If it will do 350 motorway miles at -5°C, that would be well worth the press pages IMHO.
Maybe possible at 50 mph, before the effects of drag kick in.
You'd be better off stopping once or twice for a fast charge though over such a long journey and travelling at the higher speed.
This is the perennial conundrum for all EVs though, it requires a change of mindset rather than an obsession that every car must be capable of a 6 hour year-round high-speed stint with no stopping.
I personally think that anything discouraging or preventing that sort of driving is probably a good thing.
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