Are EV cars anti consumerism?
Discussion
If you get an EV car, not many moving parts, only issues seem to be battery. Electricity used to power them is becoming more substance.
So why would there be a need to keep replacing them?
Also won't all cars end up just being the same?
Electric motor and battery just different user interfaces and tech? Is the car industry going to change forever?
So why would there be a need to keep replacing them?
Also won't all cars end up just being the same?
Electric motor and battery just different user interfaces and tech? Is the car industry going to change forever?
The whole shift to EVs seems like a capitalist/consumerist approach to “solving” the climate crisis as trillions of dollars are spent globally to develop a whole new technology and infrastructure (consuming vast amounts of energy and causing huge amounts of emissions) and pushing everyone to buy new EVs.
An anti consumerist approach would have been to reduce production of new cars, extend the life of existing cars and change society to reduce the need to travel and shift the mode of transport to feet, bicycle and public transport.
An anti consumerist approach would have been to reduce production of new cars, extend the life of existing cars and change society to reduce the need to travel and shift the mode of transport to feet, bicycle and public transport.
There will definitely be a need to keep replacing them due to the batteries.
The warranty is generally 8 years/100k miles and as I do 25k miles a year that’s only 4 years - the same as my current hybrid Toyota Corolla.
Yes, you can usually get longer than the warranty out of a battery pack but it’s a gamble that writes the car off completely when it fails. You can even refurbish the packs, but you are playing whack a mole as the other cells are just as old/used as the ones that have failed so not something I’d do.
There will also be people changing as better batteries/faster charging/longer range come out. Plus people changing as their needs change - sports car to SUV, etc.
The warranty is generally 8 years/100k miles and as I do 25k miles a year that’s only 4 years - the same as my current hybrid Toyota Corolla.
Yes, you can usually get longer than the warranty out of a battery pack but it’s a gamble that writes the car off completely when it fails. You can even refurbish the packs, but you are playing whack a mole as the other cells are just as old/used as the ones that have failed so not something I’d do.
There will also be people changing as better batteries/faster charging/longer range come out. Plus people changing as their needs change - sports car to SUV, etc.
I don’t keep with the not many moving parts.
They still have wheel bearings, brake discs and calipers, cv joints in drive shafts (dealing with much more torque) windscreen wiper motors, heating flaps, cooling pumps, steering columns, steering rack etc…they just lack the actual ICE (engine) moving parts.
Everything else will wear out. I have had to do many replacement parts and bits on my EV, I wouldn’t say it is aging as well as our mini ice.
I currently have a heated windscreen switch that seems to have a life of its own and I need to replace the indicator stalk. One of the front calipers needs a new piston.
They still have wheel bearings, brake discs and calipers, cv joints in drive shafts (dealing with much more torque) windscreen wiper motors, heating flaps, cooling pumps, steering columns, steering rack etc…they just lack the actual ICE (engine) moving parts.
Everything else will wear out. I have had to do many replacement parts and bits on my EV, I wouldn’t say it is aging as well as our mini ice.
I currently have a heated windscreen switch that seems to have a life of its own and I need to replace the indicator stalk. One of the front calipers needs a new piston.
mickythefish said:
If you get an EV car, not many moving parts, only issues seem to be battery. Electricity used to power them is becoming more substance.
So why would there be a need to keep replacing them?
Also won't all cars end up just being the same?
Electric motor and battery just different user interfaces and tech? Is the car industry going to change forever?
What has an electric motor got to do with the rest of a car? How many ICE cars using the same engine are the same to drive?So why would there be a need to keep replacing them?
Also won't all cars end up just being the same?
Electric motor and battery just different user interfaces and tech? Is the car industry going to change forever?
Bit of a strange assessment when all cars today are very different. Even Stelantis generic platform EVs are different to drive. Corsa EV is naff. Alfa Junior is very good.
The motor is just one small part of a car.
Aside from that, it makes sense for everyone to keep cars for longer and EVs will allow for that, provided manufacturers stop changing them every 5-7 years. People also need to stop wanting the 'latest' thing all the time.
Whataguy said:
There will definitely be a need to keep replacing them due to the batteries.
The warranty is generally 8 years/100k miles and as I do 25k miles a year that’s only 4 years - the same as my current hybrid Toyota Corolla.
Yes, you can usually get longer than the warranty out of a battery pack but it’s a gamble that writes the car off completely when it fails. You can even refurbish the packs, but you are playing whack a mole as the other cells are just as old/used as the ones that have failed so not something I’d do.
There will also be people changing as better batteries/faster charging/longer range come out. Plus people changing as their needs change - sports car to SUV, etc.
I have a few BEV and PHEV (plus ICE)The warranty is generally 8 years/100k miles and as I do 25k miles a year that’s only 4 years - the same as my current hybrid Toyota Corolla.
Yes, you can usually get longer than the warranty out of a battery pack but it’s a gamble that writes the car off completely when it fails. You can even refurbish the packs, but you are playing whack a mole as the other cells are just as old/used as the ones that have failed so not something I’d do.
There will also be people changing as better batteries/faster charging/longer range come out. Plus people changing as their needs change - sports car to SUV, etc.
In a decade I've not seen any major degradation, it's just hearsay imho..... here's the rough range % degradation winter/summer from range showing when new to now. I top up every trip, also rather than running right down.
2014 Panamera 5%
2014 I8 Coupe 4%
2017 T - P85D 6-7%
2018 VW Golf gte 2-3%
2018 Smart 4/2 electric improved 1% (software upgrade?)
2019 i8 Roadster 1-2%
2023 Abarth 500e 0%
Thing is all the low hanging fruit type buyer with access to cheap home charging (about 35-40% of homes) are getting cars.
Much harder now with those who have to use frankly exorbitant (price parity to petrol) chargers and all their inherent faff eg broken, queues, 25-75 minutes etc etc
Scandinavia trialling electric roads (not a joke) I suspect this or some other charge capture on the go solar/wind on car will be long term adoption trigger.
Terminator X said:
Save the planet, buy a new £100k EV every 2-3 years.
TX.
So what about the near 3M ICE that were sold annually pre Covid. TX.
Apparently a typical new 911 buyer kept their car for about 18months.
BTW I paid £17K for my EV here and will keep it for another 5 year or so as the batteries have shown minimal degradation. .
Terminator X said:
Save the planet, buy a new £100k EV every 2-3 years.
TX.
This seems to be doing ok at 10 years old and 328k, new motor and battery installed so its good to go for another 300,000 miles or more.TX.
So, hyperbolic "I dont like EV's - Waaahh" stuff aside, you dont need a new one every 2 or 3 years, they do seem to be lasting ok, I think Nissan Leafs ruined the battery/reliability thing as they had old tech packs that didnt last very long. Do 300 plus k in any big car and it will likely need big work. Suspect newer ones may last longer as well.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403308...
Here's the thing, if EVs (or any cars) were built to last, and I mean last a lifetime then you could say that they are.
But I suspect like every electrical thing we buy, it'll have a degree of planned obsolescence because manufacturers won't want you to never buy another one of their cars again right.
Also, although the motors maybe simpler than a normal engine and actually battery packs seem to be lasting. If my mates Telsa is anything to go by, I'm not sure how the rest of the car will last.
But I suspect like every electrical thing we buy, it'll have a degree of planned obsolescence because manufacturers won't want you to never buy another one of their cars again right.
Also, although the motors maybe simpler than a normal engine and actually battery packs seem to be lasting. If my mates Telsa is anything to go by, I'm not sure how the rest of the car will last.
Nomme de Plum said:
Terminator X said:
Save the planet, buy a new £100k EV every 2-3 years.
TX.
So what about the near 3M ICE that were sold annually pre Covid. TX.
Apparently a typical new 911 buyer kept their car for about 18months.
BTW I paid £17K for my EV here and will keep it for another 5 year or so as the batteries have shown minimal degradation. .
TX.
They seem like peak consumerism to me.
The rate at which the tech advances means you need to be in a cycle of frequently changing them in order to ‘keep up’.
Designing an ICE or electric car to not rust and not fail would be anti-consumerism. But then that wouldn’t be good for business…..
The rate at which the tech advances means you need to be in a cycle of frequently changing them in order to ‘keep up’.
Designing an ICE or electric car to not rust and not fail would be anti-consumerism. But then that wouldn’t be good for business…..
Tindersticks said:
Terminator X said:
I hope you are right although imho rampant consumerism is amongst the biggest problems we have eg use of finite resources, transporting it around the world etc.
TX.
Do you need two cars?TX.
France and Germany so not too far
also modern cars are so s
t that I've no plans to buy another. TX.
Only 17% of end-of-life electronic devices are properly recycled. E-waste is a genuine environmental catastrophe, unlike the smoke and mirrors that is climate change which IMO is intentionally pushed by the richest companies on the planet (who all happen to be tech or tech related companies) as a nebulous distraction guilt-trip on consumers to hide who are the genuine polluters.
End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 29th November 09:00
Terminator X said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Terminator X said:
Save the planet, buy a new £100k EV every 2-3 years.
TX.
So what about the near 3M ICE that were sold annually pre Covid. TX.
Apparently a typical new 911 buyer kept their car for about 18months.
BTW I paid £17K for my EV here and will keep it for another 5 year or so as the batteries have shown minimal degradation. .
TX.
Evercross said:
Only 17% of end-of-life electronic devices are properly recycled. E-waste is a genuine environmental catastrophe, unlike the smoke and mirrors that is climate change which IMO is intentionally pushed by the richest companies on the planet (who all happen to be tech or tech related companies) as a nebulous distraction guilt-trip on consumers to hide who are the genuine polluters.
End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
Its literally only the battery thats any different.End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 29th November 09:00
Bodyshell, suspension, brakes, tyres, glass, interior are the same as an ICE, and the motors/drive units are actually pretty recyclable given they are generally a lot of aluminium, steel and copper which is easy to recycle, probably easier than an ICE.
An Ice car has pretty much as many electronics as an EV.
So its just battery packs that differ in terms of recycling, that is being worked on but as yet, there arent that many to recycle. That will come but as of now most get snapped up as power walls for homes and to be re-manufactured/repaired.
Old packs contain plenty of material that is valuable, its getting easier to extract from old packs than to buy and process new materials, its a ready source we have already purchased and you dont have to then buy it from China or wherever else.
Not saying there is no problem but we have managed with ICE for decades, found solutions and it seems like that happening for EV's.
J4CKO said:
Evercross said:
Only 17% of end-of-life electronic devices are properly recycled. E-waste is a genuine environmental catastrophe, unlike the smoke and mirrors that is climate change which IMO is intentionally pushed by the richest companies on the planet (who all happen to be tech or tech related companies) as a nebulous distraction guilt-trip on consumers to hide who are the genuine polluters.
End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
Its literally only the battery thats any different.End-of-life EVs are going to make the current e-waste situation look like a drop in the ocean, but again no-one wants to talk about it because it directly threatens a business model.
Recycling an ICE car is a lot easier/cheaper than recycling an EV, and a discarded ICE car is far less environmentally damaging than a discarded EV.
Bodyshell, suspension, brakes, tyres, glass, interior are the same as an ICE, and the motors/drive units are actually pretty recyclable given they are generally a lot of aluminium, steel and copper which is easy to recycle, probably easier than an ICE.
An Ice car has pretty much as many electronics as an EV.
So its just battery packs that differ in terms of recycling, that is being worked on but as yet, there arent that many to recycle. That will come but as of now most get snapped up as power walls for homes and to be re-manufactured/repaired.
Old packs contain plenty of material that is valuable, its getting easier to extract from old packs than to buy and process new materials, its a ready source we have already purchased and you dont have to then buy it from China or wherever else.
Not saying there is no problem but we have managed with ICE for decades, found solutions and it seems like that happening for EV's.
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