How to unSORN ?
Discussion
"Welcome to the DVLA's Vehicle Licensing Online
I am sorry the service is currently unavailable due to essential maintenance. "
Probably fixing it already
But I don't think the other thread did show you could SORN anytime online, I could find no reference to the VED expiry.
Of course things could have changed, but last time I tried this it said it had to be 5th day of month of tax/SORN expiry.
I am sorry the service is currently unavailable due to essential maintenance. "
Probably fixing it already
But I don't think the other thread did show you could SORN anytime online, I could find no reference to the VED expiry.
Of course things could have changed, but last time I tried this it said it had to be 5th day of month of tax/SORN expiry.
Noger said:
saaby93 said:
Following on from this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
showing how to SORN your car when the insurance runs out but hold onto your tax disc for next time
What do you do when you want to unSORN it?
Previously you'd want to retax so youd apply for new tax
If youve kept the tax, you take out short term insurance, is there an online unSORNing site?
Or is there an unSORNing form at the PO?
As previously discussed on here at length, you cannot SORN online unless the VED has run out, or is about to run out.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
showing how to SORN your car when the insurance runs out but hold onto your tax disc for next time
What do you do when you want to unSORN it?
Previously you'd want to retax so youd apply for new tax
If youve kept the tax, you take out short term insurance, is there an online unSORNing site?
Or is there an unSORNing form at the PO?
i.e. You can't buy 12 months tax today, and SORN it in a few weeks. It won't let you.
Noger said:
The only option is to use the form, which says you must attach the VED and scribble "Nope, I am keeping it" in the appropriate place. And see what happens.
Using form the V14 form was my other optionNoger said:
My guess would it would not be a valid SORN, and thus you would be breaking CIE.
You've made a SORN declaration - how can that not be "valid"Noger said:
Or they just shrug, update you as SORN, and let you buy another disk if you want. Knowing that if you just bung the "old" one back in you will ping ANPR. Plod do you for false tax disk.
Not a false VED disc is it..... Doesn't fall under any classification for fraudulent use or obtained by fraud - purchased paid for etcNot looking for an arguement just discussion so thanks for all the inputs so far
Current looking thro the si relevant to this (and all the amendments - thats heavy going)
Noger said:
B'stard Child said:
It does - done it already.. see other thread
When did the tax run out ?I tried it about a month ago (on a car taxed for 9 months), and it said no. Maybe things have changed ?
Mind you - you've got me really intrigued - how did the computer say no"
B'stard Child said:
Where's Red Devil when you need him 
He's the PH'r that showed me where all the legislation could be found
These statutory instruments have loads of ammendments over time!!!
Ive posted it above He's the PH'r that showed me where all the legislation could be foundThese statutory instruments have loads of ammendments over time!!!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/conte...
look at the 4th bit at the end
saaby93 said:
B'stard Child said:
Where's Red Devil when you need him He's the PH'r that showed me where all the legislation could be found
These statutory instruments have loads of ammendments over time!!!
Ive posted it above He's the PH'r that showed me where all the legislation could be foundThese statutory instruments have loads of ammendments over time!!!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/conte...
look at the 4th bit at the end
Oh and how come it's a 2002 SI when pre sorn date is 1998??
B'stard Child said:
Noger said:
saaby93 said:
Following on from this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
showing how to SORN your car when the insurance runs out but hold onto your tax disc for next time
What do you do when you want to unSORN it?
Previously you'd want to retax so youd apply for new tax
If youve kept the tax, you take out short term insurance, is there an online unSORNing site?
Or is there an unSORNing form at the PO?
As previously discussed on here at length, you cannot SORN online unless the VED has run out, or is about to run out.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
showing how to SORN your car when the insurance runs out but hold onto your tax disc for next time
What do you do when you want to unSORN it?
Previously you'd want to retax so youd apply for new tax
If youve kept the tax, you take out short term insurance, is there an online unSORNing site?
Or is there an unSORNing form at the PO?
i.e. You can't buy 12 months tax today, and SORN it in a few weeks. It won't let you.
Noger said:
The only option is to use the form, which says you must attach the VED and scribble "Nope, I am keeping it" in the appropriate place. And see what happens.
Using form the V14 form was my other optionNoger said:
My guess would it would not be a valid SORN, and thus you would be breaking CIE.
You've made a SORN declaration - how can that not be "valid"Noger said:
Or they just shrug, update you as SORN, and let you buy another disk if you want. Knowing that if you just bung the "old" one back in you will ping ANPR. Plod do you for false tax disk.
Not a false VED disc is it..... Doesn't fall under any classification for fraudulent use or obtained by fraud - purchased paid for etcNot looking for an arguement just discussion so thanks for all the inputs so far
Current looking thro the si relevant to this (and all the amendments - thats heavy going)
)and looking to be corrected if case law or statute contradicts my assertions ) . 1 By declaring a car SORN one has told DVLA that one has made a statutory off road notification. That is all one legally needs to make it. It does not legally require DVLA to accept it or acknowldege it for a SORN to be valid. It helps to have DVLA's acknowledgement or a Special delivery receipt as they often lose documents and blame the sender and point to a failure to query their failure to acknowldege a SORN within a multi week window as some kind of proof of not having SORN'd the vehicle. This has no basis in law.
2 DVLA choose to make SORN valid for 12 months only, meaning that they have accepted your declaration for 12 months.
3 Before CI, DVLA presumably had some marker on their computer to identify which cars had declared a SORN within last 12 months. Presumably their code resets the marker at some time when it records a your paying VED by purchasing a tax disc. If the purchase fails to be recorded it will show the vehicle SORN'd. There is no obligation nor means for one That is DVLA's problem, not yours as there is no offence of driving, while under a SORN declaration, a car that is otherwise legally compliant.
5 Therefore there is no need other than courtesy to advise DVLA that one has withdrawn ones SORN declaration on account of having insured it.
6 A legally issued and paid for tax disk on ones windscreen endorsed with the Reg No of the car in question is valid - there is no legal concet of a tax disk becoming "in-valid"
4 Since CI, nothing has changed. It is now an offence to drive a car without there being a valid Cert Ins that nominates that car. A defence to this is a SORN in place. To overcome the lack of procedural framework and failure by the legal draftsmen to consider all the what ifs, DVLA have simply claimed that one should surrender the tax disk for a part refund if one declares SORN on a taxed vehicle. But they know that if you choose not to they have no leg to stand on and must accept it as B'stard Child has shown. So I guess driving around with a legally compliant car and a SORN on DVLA's computer will cause an untidyness with DVLA's database but....tough ! ...until DVLA get some sticking plaster in the form of an SI. So what can they do ? If they issue a refund running from the date of SORN then that might do it - but they lose money. If they force us to use another form to cancel SORN - it costs them money. And some of us will deliberately or accidentally not do that unless the new SI introduces even more stupid and unreasonable penalties for yet another annoying bureaucratic task.
Richard C said:
........as there is no offence of driving, while under a SORN declaration, a car that is otherwise legally compliant....
a mate received a similar note from DVLA along the lines there may be issues with driving a vehicle while registered as SORN (you may be stopped) but as long as it has tax and insurance it's fine.Whenever you retax it cancels the SORN so all you have to do is redeclare SORN before insurance lapses, but keep the tax for next time you want to insure and use the car
I think we've answered the thread
Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 22 June 15:19
Richard C said:
My take on this is simple ( terms used relatively loosely without checking the acts, regs and wording )and looking to be corrected if case law or statute contradicts my assertions ) .
1 By declaring a car SORN one has told DVLA that one has made a statutory off road notification. That is all one legally needs to make it. It does not legally require DVLA to accept it or acknowldege it for a SORN to be valid. It helps to have DVLA's acknowledgement or a Special delivery receipt as they often lose documents and blame the sender and point to a failure to query their failure to acknowldege a SORN within a multi week window as some kind of proof of not having SORN'd the vehicle. This has no basis in law.
2 DVLA choose to make SORN valid for 12 months only, meaning that they have accepted your declaration for 12 months.
3 Before CI, DVLA presumably had some marker on their computer to identify which cars had declared a SORN within last 12 months. Presumably their code resets the marker at some time when it records a your paying VED by purchasing a tax disc. If the purchase fails to be recorded it will show the vehicle SORN'd. There is no obligation nor means for one That is DVLA's problem, not yours as there is no offence of driving, while under a SORN declaration, a car that is otherwise legally compliant.
5 Therefore there is no need other than courtesy to advise DVLA that one has withdrawn ones SORN declaration on account of having insured it.
6 A legally issued and paid for tax disk on ones windscreen endorsed with the Reg No of the car in question is valid - there is no legal concet of a tax disk becoming "in-valid"
4 Since CI, nothing has changed. It is now an offence to drive a car without there being a valid Cert Ins that nominates that car. A defence to this is a SORN in place. To overcome the lack of procedural framework and failure by the legal draftsmen to consider all the what ifs, DVLA have simply claimed that one should surrender the tax disk for a part refund if one declares SORN on a taxed vehicle. But they know that if you choose not to they have no leg to stand on and must accept it as B'stard Child has shown. So I guess driving around with a legally compliant car and a SORN on DVLA's computer will cause an untidyness with DVLA's database but....tough ! ...until DVLA get some sticking plaster in the form of an SI. So what can they do ? If they issue a refund running from the date of SORN then that might do it - but they lose money. If they force us to use another form to cancel SORN - it costs them money. And some of us will deliberately or accidentally not do that unless the new SI introduces even more stupid and unreasonable penalties for yet another annoying bureaucratic task.
Wheres the hand clapping smilie..........)and looking to be corrected if case law or statute contradicts my assertions ) . 1 By declaring a car SORN one has told DVLA that one has made a statutory off road notification. That is all one legally needs to make it. It does not legally require DVLA to accept it or acknowldege it for a SORN to be valid. It helps to have DVLA's acknowledgement or a Special delivery receipt as they often lose documents and blame the sender and point to a failure to query their failure to acknowldege a SORN within a multi week window as some kind of proof of not having SORN'd the vehicle. This has no basis in law.
2 DVLA choose to make SORN valid for 12 months only, meaning that they have accepted your declaration for 12 months.
3 Before CI, DVLA presumably had some marker on their computer to identify which cars had declared a SORN within last 12 months. Presumably their code resets the marker at some time when it records a your paying VED by purchasing a tax disc. If the purchase fails to be recorded it will show the vehicle SORN'd. There is no obligation nor means for one That is DVLA's problem, not yours as there is no offence of driving, while under a SORN declaration, a car that is otherwise legally compliant.
5 Therefore there is no need other than courtesy to advise DVLA that one has withdrawn ones SORN declaration on account of having insured it.
6 A legally issued and paid for tax disk on ones windscreen endorsed with the Reg No of the car in question is valid - there is no legal concet of a tax disk becoming "in-valid"
4 Since CI, nothing has changed. It is now an offence to drive a car without there being a valid Cert Ins that nominates that car. A defence to this is a SORN in place. To overcome the lack of procedural framework and failure by the legal draftsmen to consider all the what ifs, DVLA have simply claimed that one should surrender the tax disk for a part refund if one declares SORN on a taxed vehicle. But they know that if you choose not to they have no leg to stand on and must accept it as B'stard Child has shown. So I guess driving around with a legally compliant car and a SORN on DVLA's computer will cause an untidyness with DVLA's database but....tough ! ...until DVLA get some sticking plaster in the form of an SI. So what can they do ? If they issue a refund running from the date of SORN then that might do it - but they lose money. If they force us to use another form to cancel SORN - it costs them money. And some of us will deliberately or accidentally not do that unless the new SI introduces even more stupid and unreasonable penalties for yet another annoying bureaucratic task.
Ahh there it is
And have one of these too
and 
Superb - would you mind if I borrowed some of it - Please
saaby93 said:
B'stard Child said:
Wheres the hand clapping smilie..........
Ahh there it is
And have one of these too and
and some of these for you tooAhh there it is
And have one of these too
and 
I've quite enjoyed this thread (and the other two sub threads) - been a learning experience
Really interested to see what divvy la la come back as a response
Saaby, I think you are misreading it.
The legislation you have linked is just the SORN for tax legislation as originally drafted, not the CIE legislation, and it clearly lists the conditions under which you must declare SORN.
All of those conditions relate to the vehicle either being unlicensed (so no tax disc) or about to be unlicensed (surrendering tax disc). None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.
The legislation you have linked is just the SORN for tax legislation as originally drafted, not the CIE legislation, and it clearly lists the conditions under which you must declare SORN.
All of those conditions relate to the vehicle either being unlicensed (so no tax disc) or about to be unlicensed (surrendering tax disc). None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.
mattmurdock said:
Saaby, I think you are misreading it.
The legislation you have linked is just the SORN for tax legislation as originally drafted, not the CIE legislation, and it clearly lists the conditions under which you must declare SORN.
All of those conditions relate to the vehicle either being unlicensed (so no tax disc) or about to be unlicensed (surrendering tax disc). None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.
Have you found the SI relating to CI?The legislation you have linked is just the SORN for tax legislation as originally drafted, not the CIE legislation, and it clearly lists the conditions under which you must declare SORN.
All of those conditions relate to the vehicle either being unlicensed (so no tax disc) or about to be unlicensed (surrendering tax disc). None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.
That's a please thank-you request not anything else
mattmurdock said:
None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.
Where does it say that you cant?
Apart from someone above showing that you can, wouldnt you have to SORN it while taxed in order to apply for a tax cancellation if you needed one?
Or do you think you're supposed to cancel the tax before SORN?
Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 22 June 15:57
So I guess it would be logical if selling a car you only intend to drive infrequently if at all (e.g. for test drives) to declare it SORN, keep the tax disc, insure it on a day-long basis as necessary for test drives?
I know it's not strictly legitimate but at least it would eliminate the danger of receiving an automated fine for having a non-SORN'd vehicle without insurance?
Is there a specific offence endorseable or otherwise for driving a vehicle that is declared SORN but is otherwise fully legal (VED, insurance, MOT)?
I know it's not strictly legitimate but at least it would eliminate the danger of receiving an automated fine for having a non-SORN'd vehicle without insurance?
Is there a specific offence endorseable or otherwise for driving a vehicle that is declared SORN but is otherwise fully legal (VED, insurance, MOT)?
Durzel said:
I know it's not strictly legitimate
unless mattmrdock finds otherwise it's strictly legalsee here too
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Durzel said:
So I guess it would be logical if selling a car you only intend to drive infrequently if at all (e.g. for test drives) to declare it SORN, keep the tax disc, insure it on a day-long basis as necessary for test drives?
Yep - logical and sensible
I know it's not strictly legitimate but at least it would eliminate the danger of receiving an automated fine for having a non-SORN'd vehicle without insurance?
I'm not sure it isn't yet but at least you are complaint with the CI requirement
Is there a specific offence endorseable or otherwise for driving a vehicle that is declared SORN but is otherwise fully legal (VED, insurance, MOT)?
There is no offenceYep - logical and sensible
I know it's not strictly legitimate but at least it would eliminate the danger of receiving an automated fine for having a non-SORN'd vehicle without insurance?
I'm not sure it isn't yet but at least you are complaint with the CI requirement
Is there a specific offence endorseable or otherwise for driving a vehicle that is declared SORN but is otherwise fully legal (VED, insurance, MOT)?
I sell my Polo - buyer (fully insured and with appropriate full Licence) drives away having completed all the relevant docs which I put in post to Divvy La La he keeps the counterpart
Car is still SORN until Reg Doc arrives with DVLA (change of keeper one of reasons SORN is cancelled)
However vehicle is insured, VED is displayed and valid - MOT is for 11 mths
No offence
Any BiB want to say how they would view the situation after say a tug based on data supplied incar from ANPR?
Edited by B'stard Child on Wednesday 22 June 16:09
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