HID lamps, legalities please

[Otispunkmeyer]

Nigel Worc's said:

Hello all.

I've a 2000 E39 5 series bmw saloon, I'm about to fit a HID kit to the low beam.

I have self levelling projector lamps with wash, so I believe my car should be ok for this retro-fit, and my mechanic mate says it shouldn't be an issue.

I was discussing with him that if I like it, I'll fit a second kit to the high beam, he's unsure if I'm allowed to, he thinks I'm not, but cannot give any specific reason, other than he hopes he's never coming the other way if I do.

Any reason I can think of would normally be governed by wattage, but of couse HID lamps are actually a lower wattage than halogen.

So, do the legal boys know of any reason this isn't allowed ?

Wouldn't bother fitting them to high beam

Well depends what lamps the car uses for high beams, because with discharge lamps you'll probably lose the ability to flash them (i.e. to let people through or whatever) as they don't ignite/extinguish as quickly as a standard tungsten bulb will light up. Just stick to the main beams.

That your car has self levelling and wash probably means no one will bat an eye lid. I think its a bit of a grey area because OEM cars must have the auto level and wash if fitted with HID's, however you can retrofit to any car, even ones with normal reflector headlamps (not projector lenses) and not require either levelling or wash wipe. Well at least thats my understanding. HID"s on normal reflectors are fine... there are a number of cars fitted with HIDs on reflectors straight out the factory (civic, old laguna...).

My mates just put HIDs on his civic SE... no self levelling, no wash, we'll see if he goes past the MOT. The civics beam pattern and standard headlamps are awful though, so no wonder he's changed them.

[mudster]

Otispunkmeyer said:

HID"s on normal reflectors are fine... there are a number of cars fitted with HIDs on reflectors straight out the factory (civic, old laguna...).

True, there are reflectors with HIDs from the factory. The reflector design is different to account for the different position of the light source within the lamp.

Fitting a HID to a reflector not designed for it will change the beam pattern.

[Stoofa]

This link however:

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadl...

Indicated that retro-fitted HID's DO require auto-levelling and washers which makes it cost-prohibitive to most vehicles.

[4rephill]

Nigel Worc's said:

I suspect the auto leveling systems are all going to be different.

Mine appears (from my checks at the weekend) to respond to where I've set the level to be by the switch inside.

That's not an automatic self levelling system designed to adjust the beam height constantly as the car is driven along, that's a manual system designed to counteract any additional payload in the car and remain set until altered again by the driver.

Nigel Worc's said:

When you turn the headlamps on, they go up, then down to the level set ...... I think !

Again, that's not self levelling, that's merely the headlight systems method of allowing the driver to see that the height adjustment is operating correctly and that the motors haven't seized.





It seems the aftermarket suppliers don't believe HID conversion kits are legal:


From HIDS4U (http://www.hids4u.co.uk/terms.html ):

Technical Information for HID Conversion Kits

Please remember that it is your responsibility to ensure that the items purchased are suitable for your vehicle make/model and that the use of said items complies with all applicable laws in your Country. In the UK, fitting an aftermarket HID kit is not technically road legal as you are replacing a halogen bulb with an HID bulb, because of this the HID bulb cannot be E marked, which is a requirement for it to be road legal. Therefore our HID kits are sold for off-road use only.




From HIDsDIRECT: ( http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/pages/terms-and-condi... )


Please remember; it is your responsibility to ensure that the items purchased are suitable for your vehicle make/model and that the use of said items complies with all applicable laws in your Country. Please also note that under UK regulations HID kits are not yet approved road legal, this is because HID kits are not e-marked approved in their entirety. Until UK regulations are changed or up-dated our HID kits are sold for off road and show use only.

At the end of the day, if you have to remove them to pass the MOT test, then they're not legal!.

[Fox-]

Legality aside if your E39 is a facelift model the actual headlight housing/projector lense is the same irrespective of whether the car has factory HID's or not. The non-HID fitted cars even have the screw holes for the ballast mounting bracket. Therefore from a safety perspective on the road and to oher road users your car will be no different to an E39 with factory HID's provided you have used 4300K bulbs.

The E39 has never had BiXenon headlights though - even factory HID fitted cars - so the high beam has a reflector not a projector, therefore you should NOT fit HID bulbs for the high beam in an E39. Only the main beam has a projector lense.

Note that your E39 doesnt have self levelling - it has manual electronically controlled levelling by means of a wheel inside the car. It is a common but incorrect assumption that because the electric adjustment performs a self-test when you turn the lights on, the levelling is automatic. It is not.

The problem with aftermarket HID's is when people fit them into the wrong type of headlight housing, not when people fit them into decent projector housings.

The purpose of the requirement for auto levelling is to make allowances for the chimps who don't bother to adjust the beam angle when loading the car up. Having owned a BMW with factory HID's the self levelling system is nothing like quick enough to adjust on the fly to road conditions and its purpose is purely to idiot-proof the system against plonkers.

Edited by Fox- on Saturday 12th November 21:06

[GC8]

Stoofa said:

This link however:

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadl...

Indicated that retro-fitted HID's DO require auto-levelling and washers which makes it cost-prohibitive to most vehicles.

The linked article is an opinion and its certainly flawed. Theyre saying that you require these features because vehicles with factory fitted HID lamps have to have them. This isnt actually so and cars are homologated with self levelling rear suspension and some without any means of altering beam aim at all (sports cars without rear seats or much luggage capacity).

[DAVEVO9]

mudster said:

True, there are reflectors with HIDs from the factory. The reflector design is different to account for the different position of the light source within the lamp.

Fitting a HID to a reflector not designed for it will change the beam pattern.

It's more to do with the type of bulb.. there are 2 types of HID bulbs, D2S and D2R. D2S are fitted to projector type headlights and the D2R bulbs are fitted to reflector type headlights.

Part of the bulb is covered with a heatproof coating on a D2R stopping unwanted glare that will occur if you were to use a D2S. Also the 2 types of bulb are not inter changeable because the locating lugs on the bulb base are in a slightly different position.

Most people just fit D2S bulbs in hid kits to reflector type headlights without knowing this..

Good HID kit suppliers like HIDS4U can supply D2R bulbs in their kits.

HTH.

[Mr2Mike]

DAVEVO9 said:

It's more to do with the type of bulb..

It's more to do with the difference in the shape of the light source between a conventional lamp and a HID one. A conventional lamp has a long thin light source defined by the shape of the filament and has clearly defined edges, but a HID has a kind of oval blob without a distinct edge.

Fitting a D2R to a reflector and lens assembly designed for a tungsten halogen lamp will still give the wrong beam pattern.

[Petemate]

Mr2Mike said:

It's more to do with the difference in the shape of the light source between a conventional lamp and a HID one. A conventional lamp has a long thin light source defined by the shape of the filament and has clearly defined edges, but a HID has a kind of oval blob without a distinct edge.

Fitting a D2R to a reflector and lens assembly designed for a tungsten halogen lamp will still give the wrong beam pattern.

AFAIK not if the bulb has been modified like HIDs4u do

[mudster]

Petemate said:

AFAIK not if the bulb has been modified like HIDs4u do

Unless you know exactly which part of the lamp output actually hits the reflector and contributes to which part of the beam pattern, there is no way of knowing which parts of the lamp to blank off. Reflector design is going to vary from headlight to headlight.

[DAVEVO9]

few pics here.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIDS4U-AntiGlare-HID-Con...

[Nigel Worc's]

My kit has CE markings chaps.

I've not fitted it yet, as I haven't found the correct mounting bits, the one's I have are too big.

The kit I have has H7 fitments ..... my poxy car doesn't, it has something called 500/600 fittings, same lamps, different base !

My mot tester has also told me (in line with one of the previous posts), that my car has the same headlights as those fitted with HID's from the factory.

My mot tester assures me I will not have to remove them for the mot, he'll pass it no problem.

I just hope they are worth the effort when I get them on lol.

[Petemate]

Nigel Worc's said:

My kit has CE markings chaps.

I've not fitted it yet, as I haven't found the correct mounting bits, the one's I have are too big.

The kit I have has H7 fitments ..... my poxy car doesn't, it has something called 500/600 fittings, same lamps, different base !

My mot tester has also told me (in line with one of the previous posts), that my car has the same headlights as those fitted with HID's from the factory.

My mot tester assures me I will not have to remove them for the mot, he'll pass it no problem.

I just hope they are worth the effort when I get them on lol.

They will be, trust me.

[Mr2Mike]

Petemate said:

AFAIK not if the bulb has been modified like HIDs4u do

So you install a HID lamp to get more light output, but then you have to blank off substantial parts of the lamps output to reduce glare. Seems like a perfectly logical thing to do.