Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[chevy55]

R0G said:

Just to get ROG's attention

From another forum the question came up about towing a caravan trailer with a large yank pickup truck with a fifth wheel arrangement, For licence (and I suppose legality) purposes are these treated the same as trailers hooked up via tow ball as before the HGV licence changes I believe they were different. From what the poster says the pickup truck will be about 5.5 tonnes gvw and the trailer about the same although the trailer is over 7m long so I think that's over length for a BE licence anyway. My main question is whether a trailer and a semi trailer are different or the same in law
Will he need a tacho as well?

[R0G]

leyorkie said:

Thanks.
It seemed to me that you were guilty before the event.
85% of the towing capacity is 1200kg so 905kg is well within the limits.

The 85% ADVICE is for caravans only and the recommendation is for the caravan actual weight not to be more than 85% of the vehicle actual weight at the time of towing
The CC use worse case scenario weights where they assume the vehicle is empty with a fully laden caravan

[R0G]

chevy55 said:

From another forum the question came up about towing a caravan trailer with a large yank pickup truck with a fifth wheel arrangement, For licence (and I suppose legality) purposes are these treated the same as trailers hooked up via tow ball as before the HGV licence changes I believe they were different. From what the poster says the pickup truck will be about 5.5 tonnes gvw and the trailer about the same although the trailer is over 7m long so I think that's over length for a BE licence anyway. My main question is whether a trailer and a semi trailer are different or the same in law
Will he need a tacho as well?

Same weight laws but any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes comes into LGV category for licence laws - you stated GVW is 5.5 tonnes so that makes it a LGV C1 vehicle

[chevy55]

R0G said:

Same weight laws but any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes comes into LGV category for licence laws - you stated GVW is 5.5 tonnes so that makes it a LGV C1 vehicle

Yes it's a large American pickup and looking at the specs it's around 5.5 tons gross, adding a five ton+ trailer to it would surely make it CE wouldn't it unless you don't have the 107 code on C1E

[R0G]

chevy55 said:

es it's a large American pickup and looking at the specs it's around 5.5 tons gross, adding a five ton+ trailer to it would surely make it CE wouldn't it unless you don't have the 107 code on C1E

If it has a 5.5 tonne GVW then it is a C1 vehicle and towing a trailer over 750kgs would need C1+E

[chevy55]

R0G said:

If it has a 5.5 tonne GVW then it is a C1 vehicle and towing a trailer over 750kgs would need C1+E

Thanks for that, all as I thought. He has C1E but like me under grandfather rights but I would suspect he'll have the 107 code which restricts him to a 750kg or 8250kg gross so He'll be stuffed with his big trailer.

[Who me ?]

Just to confuse things further.
I'm one the ( soon to be many) that have had my licence "renewed" as I'm deemed not to be fit to drive a large vehicle . What is so interesting is that LIKE a lot more posting here, I see my doctor a lot more than someone of my age who just goes when they're ill. So my health is monitored at least twice a year , unlike someone of my age without a condition .Doctor knows I still drive and is happy with that , so what right has any petty official to remove that right ( unless it's to give GPs extra cash.
Rant over.
Now that I've had my grandfather rights removed (no trial- no medical evidence against, unless I PAY) ---( I suddenly realise what the Police blokes who were forcibly retired -,not given jobs where their skills and experience could be used, felt like ) ,what apart from a car ( and nothing on two wheels ,please) can I drive.

[HustleRussell]

Who me said:

Just to confuse things further.
I'm one the ( soon to be many) that have had my licence "renewed" as I'm deemed not to be fit to drive a large vehicle . What is so interesting is that LIKE a lot more posting here, I see my doctor a lot more than someone of my age who just goes when they're ill. So my health is monitored at least twice a year , unlike someone of my age without a condition .Doctor knows I still drive and is happy with that , so what right has any petty official to remove that right ( unless it's to give GPs extra cash.
Rant over.
Now that I've had my grandfather rights removed (no trial- no medical evidence against, unless I PAY) ---( I suddenly realise what the Police blokes who were forcibly retired -,not given jobs where their skills and experience could be used, felt like ) ,what apart from a car ( and nothing on two wheels ,please) can I drive.

This is the trailer towing (B / B+e license) thread and contains a lot of information about towing trailers with a B / B+e license.

[chevy55]

[quote=Who me ?]Just to confuse things further.
I'm one the ( soon to be many) that have had my licence "renewed" as I'm deemed not to be fit to drive a large vehicle . What is so interesting is that LIKE a lot more posting here, I see my doctor a lot more than someone of my age who just goes when they're ill. So my health is monitored at least twice a year , unlike someone of my age without a condition .Doctor knows I still drive and is happy with that , so what right has any petty official to remove that right ( unless it's to give GPs extra cash.
Rant over.
Now that I've had my grandfather rights removed (no trial- no medical evidence against, unless I PAY) ---( I suddenly realise what the Police blokes who were forcibly retired -,not given jobs where their skills and experience could be used, felt like ) ,what apart from a car ( and nothing on two wheels ,please) can I drive.

[/quote]
Good rant but care to elaborate as your post is pretty meaningless

[R0G]

What categories are left on your licence ?

[Who me ?]

AM/A/B1/BE are the ones left after I turned 70 . TBH - I'm more interested in what has been removed as the letter giving me the option was vague.

[R0G]

[quote=Who me ?]AM/A/B1/BE are the ones left after I turned 70 . TBH - I'm more interested in what has been removed as the letter giving me the option was vague.
[/quote]
At age 70 you need to take and pass the D4 medical to retain anything in the pre 1997 C & D categories ( C1 C1E(107) D1(101) D1E(101) )
That medical lasts for 3 years and costs £60 max - if more you have been ripped off


You still have BE so can tow a trailer up to 3500 MAM with a vehicle up to 3500 GVW if the vehicle weight limits allow for that

[chevy55]

R0G said:

That medical lasts for 3 years and costs £60 max - if more you have been ripped off

You obviously don't live in the south of the country.

[R0G]

chevy55 said:

You obviously don't live in the south of the country.

Google Drivers medicals or doctors on wheels

[lenard]

ive got a skoda octavia 1.9tdi 2007 i think the towing limit is 1400kg. can i tow a caravan with a max weight of 1473 and unladen 1245? if i drove with the van empty and the heavy stuff in the car. so that the van didn't weigh more than the car? ive got a b licence. but been towing for years.

[HustleRussell]

lenard said:

ive got a skoda octavia 1.9tdi 2007 i think the towing limit is 1400kg. can i tow a caravan with a max weight of 1473 and unladen 1245? if i drove with the van empty and the heavy stuff in the car. so that the van didn't weigh more than the car? ive got a b licence. but been towing for years.

Yes. The kerb weight of the car should exceed the gross weight of the caravan (although I think this stipulation was removed?)

[R0G]

lenard said:

ive got a skoda octavia 1.9tdi 2007 i think the towing limit is 1400kg. can i tow a caravan with a max weight of 1473 and unladen 1245? if i drove with the van empty and the heavy stuff in the car. so that the van didn't weigh more than the car? ive got a b licence. but been towing for years.

Max ACTUAL tow limit is 1400 so what ever you are towing must not ACTUALLY weigh more than that

Re B licence - as the caravan is 1473 MTPLM (MAM) plated weight then the GVW (MAM) plated weight of the Octavia must not be more than 2027kg
1473+2027=3500

[was8v]

I need to shift my parent's caravan to sell.

I have a post '97 license and never taken a trailer test.

I have the choice of my parent's Freelander 2, or our little 105hp 1.2 TSI Golf as tow cars. The caravan is going to be empty, but apparently that doesn't matter with a post '97 license.

I worked out that I am allowed to tow the caravan with the Golf, but not the Freelander 2. This seems insane to me as the whole outfit would be much safer with the Freelander 2.

Did I work it out correctly?

Caravan:
Mass in Running Order (Kg) - 840
Maximum Allowable/Authorised Weight (Kg) - 1080

Freelander 2
Gross Weight (kg) 2505
Towing limit (braked) (kg) 2000

Golf 1.2 TSI
Gross Vehicle Weight 1,720kg
Max. Towing Weight - Braked 1,100kg

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car gives two scenarios, I have labelled them a) and b):

gov said:

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:
a) drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
b) tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

I am assuming Gross Vehicle Weight = MAM

With Freelander 2 I can tow:
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 2505 = 995kg mam trailer. FL2 has a max of 2000kg.

I CANT TOW CARAVAN as the caravan MAM is 1080kg, which is over 995kg.

Little Golf can tow
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 1720 = 1780kg MAM, however car has a max of 1100kg

Caravan is 1080kg MAM so I can tow it with this!

Edited by was8v on Tuesday 11th July 22:55

[R0G]

was8v said:

I am assuming Gross Vehicle Weight = MAM

With Freelander 2 I can tow:
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 2505 = 995kg mam trailer. FL2 has a max of 2000kg.

I CANT TOW CARAVAN as the caravan MAM is 1080kg, which is over 995kg.

Little Golf can tow
a) up to 750kg mam trailer.
b) 3500 - 1720 = 1780kg MAM, however car has a max of 1100kg

Caravan is 1080kg MAM so I can tow it with this!

You have the figures and law spot on = well done

When you tow the empty caravan it will probably weigh about 900kg so well within the 1100 limit

[was8v]

Brill thanks!