Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Author
Discussion

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th January 2012
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
Good thread ROG. Only thing missing from the first paragraph for unitiated (yet) was I had to look up MAM
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
If I have it right it' Maximum Authorised Mass'. Is it specified by the trailer manufacturer and is why you can ask them to respecify a trailer downwards in order to meet the legal requirements for the vehicle, your licence etc?
You do have that correct

For B licence towing there is often a need to downplate

There is NEVER a need to downplate for B+E licences when towing

I put this in the first post of this thread -
R0G said:
GVW - the max weight the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
Edited by R0G on Wednesday 25th January 14:19

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 25th January 2012
quotequote all
R0G said:
I put this in the first post of this thread -
R0G said:
GVW - the max weight the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
You did smile
and the thread began with
R0G said:
Not sure if this has been done before but it may be useful to some ....

I have extensive knowledge on this issue and already have a trailer towing clinic HERE

Trailers over 3500 kgs plated MAM weight come under different rules which is why all the trailers towed by B class vehicles , those of 3.5 tonnes and under, are not plated at more than 3500 kgs or 3.5 tonnes MAM
Being a novice about trailers maybe
R0Gnearly said:
Trailers over 3500 kgs plated MAM weight (the maximum authorised mass - total weight of trailer and load) come under different rules which is why all the trailers towed by B class vehicles, those of 3.5 tonnes and under, are not plated at more than 3500 kgs or 3.5 tonnes MAM
Does 'plated' need explanation too - the design weights the manufacturer puts on the plate attached to the trailer?

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th January 2012
quotequote all
I take on board what you're saying but there is also the balance between too much info and keeping it as simple as possible

Vytalis

1,434 posts

163 months

Thursday 26th January 2012
quotequote all
Great thread.

Can I check this scenario please:

3.5t GVW van with GTW of 7t
990kg unladen box trailer with maximum laden weight of 3.5t

Can someone with a car licence pre-1997 drive the above train?

Am I also right in saying that the above setup doesn't need an Operator's Licence (trailer less than 1020kg unladen)?

Thanks in advance.

With these feet

5,728 posts

214 months

Friday 27th January 2012
quotequote all
Vytalis said:
Great thread.

Can I check this scenario please:

3.5t GVW van with GTW of 7t
990kg unladen box trailer with maximum laden weight of 3.5t

Can someone with a car licence pre-1997 drive the above train?

Am I also right in saying that the above setup doesn't need an Operator's Licence (trailer less than 1020kg unladen)?

Thanks in advance.
O licence is required if its for business - hire or reward.
The exemption for small trailers on business use was removed in December last year. A bloody joke if you ask me, that if you tow a trailer a few times a year for business use, you need the same finances, service agreements etc as to run a 40t HGV.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Friday 27th January 2012
quotequote all
Vytalis said:
Great thread.

Can I check this scenario please:

3.5t GVW van with GTW of 7t
990kg unladen box trailer with maximum laden weight of 3.5t

Can someone with a car licence pre-1997 drive the above train?

Am I also right in saying that the above setup doesn't need an Operator's Licence (trailer less than 1020kg unladen)?

Thanks in advance.
B+E licence required so pre 97 ok

No O licence (OOPS) at the moment by they are looking into changing that 1020 rule
SORRY, the poster above stated that has already been changed in Dec 2011 and as I am not an authority on this then I'll go by their answer

Edited by R0G on Friday 27th January 08:15


Edited by R0G on Friday 27th January 08:34

Vytalis

1,434 posts

163 months

Friday 27th January 2012
quotequote all
With these feet said:
O licence is required if its for business - hire or reward.
Hire or reward? I'll need this to transport our own equipment between sites - it isn't a haulage thing. Does that still count?

final_edition

653 posts

214 months

Friday 27th January 2012
quotequote all
Can trailers be left un-hitched in the road?

With these feet

5,728 posts

214 months

Saturday 28th January 2012
quotequote all
Vytalis said:
Hire or reward? I'll need this to transport our own equipment between sites - it isn't a haulage thing. Does that still count?
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-11/

Have a look on there, it should have the info. As I understand it if youre moving your own kit then you dont need one, only when you are being paid to transport something. In my case a customers car, would mean I need an O licence which then entails copies of bank statements, ads in newspapers, about £1k in costs and a service schedule. Seems to be though, they cannot enforce it with a dual-purpose vehicle! So youre OK to tow the same stuff without an O licence behind a Landy or crew cab! Absolute joke.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Wednesday 29th February 2012
quotequote all
I thought this example of towing a Ford Fiesta on a car transporter trailer with a NISSAN X-TRAIL 2.2 5R for a B licence holder (no B+E) might be useful to some.... all weights in KGs

NISSAN X-TRAIL 2.2 5R 2004 (04 plate)
Kerb weight = 1515
GVW = 2000
Towing capacity = 1500

http://trailers.co.uk/Product/Car_Transporters/TW_...
TRAILER
Unladen = 350
MAM = 1500
Payload = 1150

Focus kerb weight (actual weight) = 1050

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Wednesday 21st March 2012
quotequote all
TOWING ON 'A' FRAMES

Not a subject I have any great knowledge of but what I have found might be of use to a few

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t6...

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advic...
Towing on an A-frame

An A-frame or recovery dolly can only be used legally to recover a vehicle which has broken down.

If you tow a car that hasn't broken down using an A-frame or dolly then the law treats the combination as a trailer which must meet the appropriate braking and lighting rules.

Trailers below 750kg don't have to be fitted with braking systems, but if a braking system is fitted to a trailer of any weight – as is clearly the case for a car – then the braking system must operate correctly. This is not possible for normal systems fitted to cars, particularly the brake servo, which would not be working unless the engine was running.

Trailer regulations also require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system to ensure that the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates while the trailer is in motion or, in the case of trailers, up to a maximum mass of 1,500kg that the drawbar is prevented from touching the ground and the trailer has some residual steering.

To comply with lighting regulations while being towed, the car (in its capacity as a trailer) would need triangular red reflectors and the number plate of the towing vehicle.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Monday 14th May 2012
quotequote all
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

Adam205

814 posts

181 months

Wednesday 6th June 2012
quotequote all
Any links to official documents stating what can be towed where with L-plates on?

I'm a little bit hesitant about driving on the motorway with L-plates on the trailer incase I come across an unaware trafpol.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Thursday 7th June 2012
quotequote all
Adam205 said:
Any links to official documents stating what can be towed where with L-plates on?

I'm a little bit hesitant about driving on the motorway with L-plates on the trailer incase I come across an unaware trafpol.
NO there is not but there are rules written to say what you cannot do

Most laws are written to stop a driver doing something - think how many there would be if everything that was allowed was written!!

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 7th June 2012
quotequote all
R0G said:
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
WOW, simply great info thanks.

Ok I think I know the answer to this, but as you seem to know so much, then a little reassurance would be great.

I have a post 97 license so only have B on it.

If I used a Land Rover 90 with an Ifor Williams twin axle trailer loaded up with another Land Rover on it. Could I then tow it with L plates on if say my mother was sat in with me? She has B+E and had her license more than 3 years.

Thanks.

Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Thursday 7th June 2012
quotequote all
With these feet said:
Vytalis said:
Hire or reward? I'll need this to transport our own equipment between sites - it isn't a haulage thing. Does that still count?
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-11/

Have a look on there, it should have the info. As I understand it if youre moving your own kit then you dont need one, only when you are being paid to transport something. In my case a customers car, would mean I need an O licence which then entails copies of bank statements, ads in newspapers, about £1k in costs and a service schedule. Seems to be though, they cannot enforce it with a dual-purpose vehicle! So youre OK to tow the same stuff without an O licence behind a Landy or crew cab! Absolute joke.
Just to add something to this, and I know it was written months ago: If you're moving your own kit as part of the day to day operations of a business (ie, you're not a private individual) and you fall within the scope of O'Licencing then you still require a Licence. If you're not doing anything at all for hire or reward, you may be able to operate on a Restricted Licence, which is a little less involving to attain, and a little less demanding (and thus, less expensive) to comply with on a day to day basis.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Thursday 7th June 2012
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
WOW, simply great info thanks.

Ok I think I know the answer to this, but as you seem to know so much, then a little reassurance would be great.

I have a post 97 license so only have B on it.

If I used a Land Rover 90 with an Ifor Williams twin axle trailer loaded up with another Land Rover on it. Could I then tow it with L plates on if say my mother was sat in with me? She has B+E and had her license more than 3 years.

Thanks.
http://www.anchorvans.co.uk/landrover-specifications.php
Cannot see any issues with doing that at all providing the insurance is ok

R0G

Original Poster:

4,984 posts

154 months

Wednesday 18th July 2012
quotequote all
This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test.

So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.

DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

OK, this is probably not the best idea but it does give the B licence driver an extra option

blackb1ade

6 posts

230 months

Tuesday 30th October 2012
quotequote all
I'm so glad I'm old...

strath44

1,358 posts

147 months

Tuesday 30th April 2013
quotequote all
Hello old thread but hoping for some help, I have been on the Gov website but its so difficult to figure out.

I am needing to collect a car but passed my test in 1999.

My father in law passed around 1975 he has driven large trailers before but I was hoping to split the driving as it is a long way.

The tow car is a 2011 Mitsubishi L200 double cab. The car to be picked up is 1330kg

Are there any car trailers I can hire where I can drive it on my licence empty down and my father in law drives it back?

A trailer rental company I spoke to mentioned that I cannot tow a braked trailer empty or otherwise on my licence.