Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[R0G]

eltax91 said:

Question number 2 R0G. If he downplayed the trailer, then when he’s finished having fun with the motor crossers, or passes his B+E, can he ‘upplate’ it again?

YES - same thing again - contact trailer manufacturer
Usually the old plate gets sent to manufacturer

[R0G]

crosseyedlion said:

Sorry if this has been talked to death somewhere on PH, but I can't seem to find anything definitive using the search function.

The situation is this:
Towing a 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 (vw touareg v10...2600kg kerb, 3500kg towing weight)
For business (so hire and reward)

I know I'll need a tacho, but do I need an operators licence?

Is it exempt?

Theres conflicting information out there stating dual purpose vehicles are exempt but must be under 2040kg empty. But then 4x4's are passenger vehicles. There's even guidance that specifically lists 4x4's as exempt but doesn't ref. the weight.

From what I can tell, if its not exempt - most operators doing similar running a 4x4 seem to just ignore it. Whats the reality?

https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator/exemptions

[Gtom]

It’s there a website anywhere that lists a vehicles gross weight and gross train weight?

At some point the tow car I borrow is being sold so I will upgrade my wife’s car to something suitable and my caravan is going to swapped for something newer but I still want to keep under the 3500kg total.

[R0G]

Gtom said:

It’s there a website anywhere that lists a vehicles gross weight and gross train weight?

At some point the tow car I borrow is being sold so I will upgrade my wife’s car to something suitable and my caravan is going to swapped for something newer but I still want to keep under the 3500kg total.

try this site https://www.carleasingmadesimple.com/car-leasing/d...

[ESD1711]

Guess this is the place to run this scenario by to check it’s legality - in my head it’s ok but figured I’d run it by folk who know best.

Assume B+E entitlement.

Trailer weight unladen: 500kg
Trailer max weight: 2000kg

Realistic trailer use, with saxo race car on it, probably sees it about 1500-1700 depending on kit?

Car I’m looking at is a C-Class estate for which I have the following numbers:

Kerb Weight: 1590kg
Gross Vehicle Weight: 2205kg
Towing Capacity: 1800kg

My thought is that ultimately I’m interested in the towing capacity vs the actual weight of the trailer which would be ok? Rather than trailer max weight vs towing capacity which wouldn’t?

[Gtom]

R0G said:

try this site https://www.carleasingmadesimple.com/car-leasing/d...

Thanks for that, sadly I’m looking at second hand cars not new. Chances are it will be a ford kuga, 2011+.

[HustleRussell]

ESD1711 said:

Guess this is the place to run this scenario by to check it’s legality - in my head it’s ok but figured I’d run it by folk who know best.

Assume B+E entitlement.

Trailer weight unladen: 500kg
Trailer max weight: 2000kg

Realistic trailer use, with saxo race car on it, probably sees it about 1500-1700 depending on kit?

Car I’m looking at is a C-Class estate for which I have the following numbers:

Kerb Weight: 1590kg
Gross Vehicle Weight: 2205kg
Towing Capacity: 1800kg

My thought is that ultimately I’m interested in the towing capacity vs the actual weight of the trailer which would be ok? Rather than trailer max weight vs towing capacity which wouldn’t?

You’re at 4,205kg which is a fair bit over the 3,500kg MAM limit.

[ESD1711]

HustleRussell said:

You’re at 4,205kg which is a fair bit over the 3,500kg MAM limit.

Even with a B+E entitlement? Surely not?

[Slow]

ESD1711 said:

HustleRussell said:

You’re at 4,205kg which is a fair bit over the 3,500kg MAM limit.

Even with a B+E entitlement? Surely not?

Limit with b+e is 3500 car and 3500 trailer so 7000 total.

[HustleRussell]

ESD1711 said:

HustleRussell said:

You’re at 4,205kg which is a fair bit over the 3,500kg MAM limit.

Even with a B+E entitlement? Surely not?

Yep I missed the B+e.

[R0G]

ESD1711 said:

Guess this is the place to run this scenario by to check it’s legality - in my head it’s ok but figured I’d run it by folk who know best.

Assume B+E entitlement.

Trailer weight unladen: 500kg
Trailer max weight: 2000kg

Realistic trailer use, with saxo race car on it, probably sees it about 1500-1700 depending on kit?

Car I’m looking at is a C-Class estate for which I have the following numbers:

Kerb Weight: 1590kg
Gross Vehicle Weight: 2205kg
Towing Capacity: 1800kg

My thought is that ultimately I’m interested in the towing capacity vs the actual weight of the trailer which would be ok? Rather than trailer max weight vs towing capacity which wouldn’t?

1800 tow capacity towing 1700 is legal with B+E

[ESD1711]

Thanks - thought that was the case

[AndyAudi]

Ok I’m post ‘97 test so have restrictions & only B license. I’m the local Scout Leader & our troop has a box trailer. I own a Landrover.

I’ve had a look & think the following, our box van is 640kg unladen & plated at 2700kg. Landrover has GVW of 2500.
As it stands I can’t tow the trailer (Even empty)

Considering what it’s used for tables, bikes, camp food & things I think I could work getting it plated at 1000kg giving me a carrying capacity of 360kg. However this then restricts that trailer considerably for others use. Getting a smaller trailer might sound like obvious answer but “volume“ of this one is handy.

Question is can i just buy a plate & downrate or is there an official register? (i see I can buy on eBay)

Can someone else, able to tow more put the old one back on?

[eltax91]

AndyAudi said:

Ok I’m post ‘97 test so have restrictions & only B license. I’m the local Scout Leader & our troop has a box trailer. I own a Landrover.

I’ve had a look & think the following, our box van is 640kg unladen & plated at 2700kg. Landrover has GVW of 2500.
As it stands I can’t tow the trailer (Even empty)

Considering what it’s used for tables, bikes, camp food & things I think I could work getting it plated at 1000kg giving me a carrying capacity of 360kg. However this then restricts that trailer considerably for others use. Getting a smaller trailer might sound like obvious answer but “volume“ of this one is handy.

Question is can i just buy a plate & downrate or is there an official register? (i see I can buy on eBay)

Can someone else, able to tow more put the old one back on?

Is the B+E not a possibility for you?

[AndyAudi]

eltax91 said:

Is the B+E not a possibility for you?

Yes it is & I probably will, it’s not just me though our leaders ages now mean only specific folk can tow the trailer. I think it will be down rated just wondered if it’s officially done or just a switch of plates (almost like the Reg plate of towing vehicle)

[eltax91]

AndyAudi said:

Yes it is & I probably will, it’s not just me though our leaders ages now mean only specific folk can tow the trailer. I think it will be down rated just wondered if it’s officially done or just a switch of plates (almost like the Reg plate of towing vehicle)

From what R0G (very knowledgable chap on this topic) poster before has said, you need to contact the manufacturer to down plate it. Then again to up plate it again. I don’t think you can have effectively 2 plates running on it to exchange them when needed

[R0G]

AndyAudi said:

Ok I’m post ‘97 test so have restrictions & only B license. I’m the local Scout Leader & our troop has a box trailer. I own a Landrover.

I’ve had a look & think the following, our box van is 640kg unladen & plated at 2700kg. Landrover has GVW of 2500.
As it stands I can’t tow the trailer (Even empty)

Considering what it’s used for tables, bikes, camp food & things I think I could work getting it plated at 1000kg giving me a carrying capacity of 360kg. However this then restricts that trailer considerably for others use. Getting a smaller trailer might sound like obvious answer but “volume“ of this one is handy.

Question is can i just buy a plate & downrate or is there an official register? (i see I can buy on eBay)

Can someone else, able to tow more put the old one back on?

Only the trailer manufacturer can do the down plating so you need to contact them
Usually involves you removing original plate then sending that with the money to the manufacturer who then then send you the new plate to fix on
drill + pop rivet gun needed in most cases

To up plate the same method is required

PS - I thought your vehicle is 2505 GVW ??

[AndyAudi]

Thanks,

R0G said:

Only the trailer manufacturer can do the down plating so you need to contact them.

To up plate the same method is required

PS - I thought your vehicle is 2505 GVW ??

Ok that makes sense
What prevents up plating back to original by putting on original, why the need to go back to manufacturer?

(Yes You’re correct on 2505GVW I just put in 2500 on this post)

ETA when I looked at towing with other leaders vehicles they have a lower GVW, It’s a pest but the landrover GVW is restricting the max downplating.

Edited by AndyAudi on Monday 17th August 22:28

[R0G]

AndyAudi said:

What prevents up plating back to original by putting on original, why the need to go back to manufacturer?

Has to be registered and only manufacturer can do that

[TVR1]

Hi Guys/Gals , this is a question that may come up more and more frequently. Just about to take delivery of a 2020 Toyota Corrolla 1.8 hybrid.

Maximum towing capacity with braked trailer is 750kg.

I’ve found a beautifully restored modernised Compass Echo (I like retro!)
They have standard weight of 580kg but max allowable of 850.

Question is? Can I still tow as long as I keep the caravan weight under 751 kg and I don’t exceed the Train weight for the car, or is this a non starter?

I can tow pretty much most things you’d want to reasonably tow/tow with on my licence so that’s not an issue.

Edited by TVR1 on Friday 21st August 22:36