Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[R0G]

eltax91 said:

That just says you must have held your full driving license for 3 years. Doesn’t say B+E entitlement held for 3 years too.

I’m almost certain I read it on a leaflet I got when I passed as I was thinking about getting my brother some practice in

It does

be over 21
be qualified to drive the type of vehicle you want to learn in, for example they must have a manual car licence if they’re supervising you in a manual car

I will change the above to be specific for what you want to do
be qualified to drive the type of vehicle (BE) you want to learn in, for example they must have a manual BE licence if they’re supervising you in a BE combination

[eltax91]

R0G said:

eltax91 said:

That just says you must have held your full driving license for 3 years. Doesn’t say B+E entitlement held for 3 years too.

I’m almost certain I read it on a leaflet I got when I passed as I was thinking about getting my brother some practice in

It does

be over 21
be qualified to drive the type of vehicle you want to learn in, for example they must have a manual car licence if they’re supervising you in a manual car

I will change the above to be specific for what you want to do
be qualified to drive the type of vehicle (BE) you want to learn in, for example they must have a manual BE licence if they’re supervising you in a BE combination

Yes R0G. But what it doesn’t say anywhere online is that you must hold BE for 3 years before training.

Here’s a ver common scenario:-

Pass test after 1997
Drove around for 15 years As normal
Now in my mid thirties
Took BE test December ‘19

Can I now supervise BE, or do I need to wait until December ‘22?

It’s not clear online whether you must wait. The link you sent just says be over 21 and hold the entitlement you are teaching in

[R0G]

eltax91 said:

Yes R0G. But what it doesn’t say anywhere online is that you must hold BE for 3 years before training.

Here’s a ver common scenario:-

Pass test after 1997
Drove around for 15 years As normal
Now in my mid thirties
Took BE test December ‘19

Can I now supervise BE, or do I need to wait until December ‘22?

It’s not clear online whether you must wait. The link you sent just says be over 21 and hold the entitlement you are teaching in

The sentence in the link covers ALL categories so I just added BE to highlight your case
It says you must hold the category which you are supervising for 3 years
You want to supervise BE so you need to have BE on your licence for 3 years before doing so - and be aged over 21

[eltax91]

R0G said:

eltax91 said:

Yes R0G. But what it doesn’t say anywhere online is that you must hold BE for 3 years before training.

Here’s a ver common scenario:-

Pass test after 1997
Drove around for 15 years As normal
Now in my mid thirties
Took BE test December ‘19

Can I now supervise BE, or do I need to wait until December ‘22?

It’s not clear online whether you must wait. The link you sent just says be over 21 and hold the entitlement you are teaching in

The sentence in the link covers ALL categories so I just added BE to highlight your case
It says you must hold the category which you are supervising for 3 years
You want to supervise BE so you need to have BE on your licence for 3 years before doing so - and be aged over 21

No, it doesn’t. Here’s the copy/ paste from the website:

Practising with family or friends

Anyone you practise your driving with (without paying them) must:

-be over 21

-be qualified to drive the type of vehicle you want to learn in, for example they must have a manual car licence if they’re supervising you in a manual car

-have had their full driving licence for 3 years (from the UK, the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein)


So. I’m over 21. I have had a full driving license for 19 years. I passed b + e December 2019.

From the above, I fit the criteria for supervising. At no point does it say I must hold the entitlement for 3 years, just a full license.

If I read that to a police officer at the roadside, I think I’m legally ok to supervise b + e. But when I passed I was given a leaflet that I think I read differently. But I can’t find specifically online anywhere that says you must hold an entitlement for 3 years to supervise.

Edited by eltax91 on Saturday 29th August 09:49

Edited by eltax91 on Saturday 29th August 12:10

[R0G]

I can see your point
There is specifics for LGV & PCV on this but it seems not for BE
After having another look I can see how it can be read either way

I will try and remember to call the authorities on Tuesday to see where the definitive is written

[F17SRF]

Thanks eltax/Rog! Rog will be interesting to see what you come back with

[crosseyedlion]

I know this may seem trivial for some but for someone with no trailer experience i found my first trailer (2 hour assesment) lesson great fun.

Reversing was much easier than I thought it was going to be. 2 day course and test lines up for mid October when they release the tests (drip feeding them out to instructors due to Corona at the moment).

I knew it couldn't be that hard but it was comforting when...it wasn't. And really enjoyable for someone who likes driving challenges.

[eltax91]

crosseyedlion said:

I know this may seem trivial for some but for someone with no trailer experience i found my first trailer (2 hour assesment) lesson great fun.

Reversing was much easier than I thought it was going to be. 2 day course and test lines up for mid October when they release the tests (drip feeding them out to instructors due to Corona at the moment).

I knew it couldn't be that hard but it was comforting when...it wasn't. And really enjoyable for someone who likes driving challenges.

I found the reversing easy as you like. I’ve towed caravans and other trailers within the 3500kg for a couple of years.

I actually found readjusting my bad habits ready for test much more difficult. I opted for 1 and 1/2 days training and immediate afternoon test. Passed 1st time.

[dhutch]

eltax91 said:

TVR1 said:

dhutch said:

And am I right in saying the normally it should also be down-plated to the new max weight matching the car?

You can get the setup weighed at one of a reasonable number of public weight bridges. If unsure or unlikely looking it's perhaps well worth the £10 cost to get a print out of it for the glove box.
This is what 21yo me did when towing a 14ft covered car transporter behind a pug306 on a post-97 Cat B only license. However despite looking 12 and having a car trailer that was a foot wider, taller, and 2ft longer than the little hatchback towing it, I never got stopped in all the miles done with it.

Daniel

Did it have a car in it?

Either way, sounds like you where lucky.

Well, yes, you’re correct. Probably no one will ever be pulled. Towing a trailer, with car (loaded) 150% over cars weight is probably not a good idea.

I could, purchase a cheeky double axle caravan of 1500kg.

My car looks ok.

Probably, I’d not be stopped. Ever.

But when I wake up from the smash, when I made a mistake and look at the dead bodies around me ‘Cos I didn't give a fcuck?

I’d prefer to be safe and do the rules.

Think about it. These rules are not just about you. They’re for others safety too.

He did say 21 year old him did it. Hinting that this action might be in the past....

We all did stuff when we first passed that we would never do now I’m sure

Equally, my point and suggestion was that if you are not sure what the weights are, you can get it weight at a weighbridge easily. And if it looks a bit unlikely, you can always keep the weighbridge cert in the glovebox.

At no point did I state, or even in my mind suggest, that the setup was in any way over weight or otherwise non-legal, it was all very much above board and gave hundreds of miles safe and probably free towing!

The comment about 'was the car in it' however is slightly amusing, because on the day in question I got the car weighed first which came in at 540kg, then I had the trailer weighed which came in at 580kg. The weighbridge operator held up the two printouts, and declared 'humm, 40kg is light for a trailer' passed the paperwork to me, and and continued his day weighing off empty and then filled coal waggons.


Daniel

[dhutch]

R0G said:

There is no legal requirement to down plate a trailer so it does not exceed the max towing capacity or GTW of a vehicle
There are plenty of internet myths saying otherwise

Just use the lowest weight of either the max tow or trailer MAM as the max limit for the loaded trailer

Ah right ok, good to know. As said, it is something which at the time, and still now, is being peddled out, often with sufficient authority (one of the those who told and or confirmed it to me was a B+E instructor, another a traffic cop at my local station at the time) that I had taken it to be truth. However it not being the case certainly make in many ways a lot more sense. Obviously slightly harder to police as you would have to actually weight it (as you would to prove it was overweight) but also otherwise you would have to be swapping plates left right and center!

I was was also suggested that in the case of an unplated general purpose or car trailer, the mam of the trailer would be taken as either three times the unladen weight, or the max combined mass of the tyres, whichever was lesser. Which was enough to get me, 12 years ago, to get a plate of eBay and stamping it up with MAM 1200kg.

Daniel

[R0G]

F17SRF said:

Thanks eltax/Rog! Rog will be interesting to see what you come back with

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2864/regulation/17/made
Nothing like the law itself !

a person has relevant driving experience if he satisfies either of the following requirements—
(i)he has held the relevant licence for a continuous period of not less than 3 years or for periods amounting in aggregate to not less than 3 years, or

[Tophatron]

Apologies if this has already been asked, but can a driver with a provisional B+E licence being supervised by someone who has passed the B+E test over 3 years ago drive with a trailer on the motorway?

Thanks!

[R0G]

Tophatron said:

Apologies if this has already been asked, but can a driver with a provisional B+E licence being supervised by someone who has passed the B+E test over 3 years ago drive with a trailer on the motorway?

Thanks!

YES

The supervising driver is anyone, even those with the free pre 97 BE, who has had the BE for over 3 years and is over age 21 so that could be your 100 year old granny !

Supervising driver only needs to be insured if they drive it

[eltax91]

Tophatron said:

Apologies if this has already been asked, but can a driver with a provisional B+E licence being supervised by someone who has passed the B+E test over 3 years ago drive with a trailer on the motorway?

Thanks!

Is the question, ‘can learner-towers’ go on the motorway? If so, yes. When I was practicing, we were doing the reversing manoeuvre in a deserted industrial estate and the fastest was back to test route/ depot was 1 junction down the M1, which the instructor took me on

[underdosed]

eltax91 said:

crosseyedlion said:

I know this may seem trivial for some but for someone with no trailer experience i found my first trailer (2 hour assesment) lesson great fun.

Reversing was much easier than I thought it was going to be. 2 day course and test lines up for mid October when they release the tests (drip feeding them out to instructors due to Corona at the moment).

I knew it couldn't be that hard but it was comforting when...it wasn't. And really enjoyable for someone who likes driving challenges.

I found the reversing easy as you like. I’ve towed caravans and other trailers within the 3500kg for a couple of years.

I actually found readjusting my bad habits ready for test much more difficult. I opted for 1 and 1/2 days training and immediate afternoon test. Passed 1st time.

Funny, I felt the complete opposite.

I thought it was going to be fairly easy, but found it harder than I had thought. Also didn't 'enjoy' the day and half lessons I had at all. Passed 1st time mind in the afternoon on the 2nd day (2 weeks ago), so was worth it.

[crosseyedlion]

passed my b+e first time on Monday, after a day and a bits tuition. Mentally exhausting!

The trailer bit of it was really easy, the challenge was it was very much a car test with a trailer attached (the driving element is actually longer) than a trailer test.

Nevertheless, still enjoyed it. Passed with 2 minors. I dont have to give 'can I tow with this combination' a second thought now if its within the capacity of the tow car and trailer. Its a good feeling.

Money well spent as it was also a good refresher after 16 years driving.

[R0G]

crosseyedlion said:

passed my b+e first time on Monday, after a day and a bits tuition. Mentally exhausting!

The trailer bit of it was really easy, the challenge was it was very much a car test with a trailer attached (the driving element is actually longer) than a trailer test.

Nevertheless, still enjoyed it. Passed with 2 minors. I dont have to give 'can I tow with this combination' a second thought now if its within the capacity of the tow car and trailer. Its a good feeling.

Money well spent as it was also a good refresher after 16 years driving.

WELL DONE

[Slow]

Help please as I’m confused as there appears to be a dead zone in the licence types within the U.K for heavy trailers.

Looking up just a 2010 f350 it states 15000 lb towing capacity and 5730 lb payload.

If you were to use a gooseneck trailer it would combine these as some of the weight is carried by the truck. This combines to a 9.7 ton capacity for towing. The pickup weighs 3ton roughly.

Where do our rules stand on this?

From the Dvla website it says this - I passed in 2015.

“The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:

before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer
on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500k”

Category c and c1 are both for a vehicle over 3.5 tons which the pickup wouldn’t be. So what licence do you have to get to tow over 3.5 but on a sub 3.5 ton vehicle?

From what I can see they have made a class of trailer unable to be used by some people with no method to ever unlock it?

Things like this but could realistically have a 9.7 ton version. Even this one doesn’t make sense as 3.5 would be behind it and no U.K. sold pickup has a payload capacity of the remaining 1.8 ton.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112774053226

[R0G]

As you passed B+E after 2013 you cannot use that licence to tow that 5.3T trailer

You would need C1+E simply because of the trailer MAM

It is one of those weird things but as I have never seen one on UK roads I suspect it is not an issue which DVLA/DVSA will look into changing

[eltax91]

R0G said:

As you passed B+E after 2013 you cannot use that licence to tow that 5.3T trailer

You would need C1+E simply because of the trailer MAM

It is one of those weird things but as I have never seen one on UK roads I suspect it is not an issue which DVLA/DVSA will look into changing

The pictures in the eBay advert show a few that are clearly on UK market trucks and roads.