Who's at fault? Traffic collision - with video

Who's at fault? Traffic collision - with video

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SupremeUK

Original Poster:

21 posts

128 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Hi all

On 23rd Feb 2012, I was involved in a collision with a learner driver on the roundabout near Tesco Aldershot. (Willems Roundabout)
I submitted this dashcam to my insurance company with the firm belief that I was not at fault: http://youtu.be/ue-4z0-RkA8

My insurance company has advised me that they do not feel they can defend the collision in my favour, stating that I had "driven too close to the left lane", and thus they have settled the claim with 100% in favour of the learner driver vehicle.

My thoughts:
1. I was in the correct lane to take the first exit - as per the painted arrows on the road surface you can see in the video and google maps: http://local.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&...

2. I believe I was well within my lane. If you view the video at 0:08 seconds, you can see how the dashcam places the car in the lane, and then at 34.8 seconds is the exact point the other car collided with me. The damage to my car is just behind the passenger back seat, scraping along the back left tire.

The damage to my car is minor, and you can hear in the video that it was not a serious collision, but the learner drivers instructor has put in a personal injury claim on top of the claim to the damage of his car.
I do not have to pay any excess, but would have to pay an excess if I am to get my car repaired.
I advised my insurance company that I was not happy with their view on events and they advised me they have the right to settle the claim however they seem fit, as per my contract.

The question I would like to ask / get advice on is:
1. Should I accept the insurance companies response?
2. Was I at fault in this situation?
3. If I was not at fault, and would like to pursue this further, how would I do so? Are there any recommendations to attorneys that specialise in traffic collisions / road law that I could get a second opinion?

Thanks


vescaegg

23,376 posts

125 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Its quite an odd road layout...

But to me it looks like you sped up considerably to try and get past the learner on the roundabout. If you knew you needed the first exit why were you not behind the learner?

You were in the right hand lane and tried to turn left at the roundabout.

The arrows painted on the road however do not help. I think they lane with the learner should have a Left arrow, not straight ahead. You're lane would then be used for taking any exit after the first.


Edited by vescaegg on Monday 12th March 10:51

jodypress

1,693 posts

232 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Sorry Op but looks like you were 100% at fault here. You in a lane that is clearly marked straight on or turn right. The Learner is in a lane marked straight on. He is not indicating left.

You speed up to nip round to the left to overtake him. He carries on correctly and hits you as you turned across his path.

FurtiveFreddy

8,410 posts

195 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
How did the other driver justify a personal injury claim and what was their version of the events?


randlemarcus

12,427 posts

189 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
jodypress said:
Sorry Op but looks like you were 100% at fault here. You in a lane that is clearly marked straight on or turn right. The Learner is in a lane marked straight on. He is not indicating left.

You speed up to nip round to the left to overtake him. He carries on correctly and hits you as you turned across his path.
Have to agree with that.

GBDG

896 posts

112 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Yeah, you don't have a leg to stand on. Bloody awful driving! You were clearly in the wrong lane, roundabout had 3 exits, right lane is for straight on and right - you turned left, attempting to overtake a vehicle in the correct lane.

If you think the right lane is correct - you need to retake your driving test!

Edited by GBDG on Monday 12th March 11:04

TPS

1,860 posts

171 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
The car is in a lane to go straight on,you are in a lane to go straight on.

Sorry but i would say 100% your fault too.You should have stayed in the left lane to turn left,not sped up and tried to get round a car that was not indicating to turn left,and so should have been apparant that it was going straight over.

Road2Ruin

3,600 posts

174 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
100% op's fault as not in correct lane to turn left at roundabout. Also I would say it shows intimidating driving on the Op's part which is an offence in itself. I think you have incriminated yourself.

saaby93

27,067 posts

136 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
ha ha - there was a thread on this a month back
A few years ago the learner would have been told to signal right there and to signal left before the junction they wanted to leave at.
You assumed the learner was going to go left and knew there two lanes in and two lanes out, did the learner and accompanying driver know there two lanes too?
Meanwhile the Learner should have checked there was no-one coming past and either taken the turning or braked.
You were too far ahead to know the learner was going around. If you were further back you could have gone around the roundabout once to avoid a collision.

It may help that you were ahead when it happened.
What was the accompanying driver doing?
http://local.google.co.uk/maps?q=aldershot+tesco&a...
Youre both from bottom right. The advisory roadmarkings dont even give the learner a left turn option,

As others have said chalk it up to experience and the learner will too


Edited by saaby93 on Monday 12th March 11:18

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

128 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
You were far too close THROUGHOUT and not affording enough caution to the LEARNER. Your driving is far too impatient and very poor.

stargazer30

1,312 posts

124 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Sorry Op only turn left like this when the left lane is left only and not a straight on as well. Typically you see this with 3 lanes on approach and the first exit being a dual carriageway.

Even if it had been a left only left lane, I wouldn't have tried to pass on the bend as theres always one numpty ignores it and drives straight on. Just like the fwits who turn right in the left lane of big rounabouts and scare the poo out of the poor guy trying to move over to the left to exit it correctly!

covboy

2,361 posts

132 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
Just out of interest, how would this video stand in court of law with completely the wrong time and date code on it.

Obviously the whole incident is the one being referred to, but we read on here so much about insisting that the BiB have properly calibrated equipment etc. how does that work with "private" footage?

mxspyder

1,065 posts

123 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
That's pretty poor road markings to be fair, but they weren't indicating left and the arrows were showing it was OK to go straight over the the roundabout in that lane so I guess you would be at fault.


Red Devil

12,154 posts

166 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
SupremeUK said:
2. Was I at fault in this situation?
I had exactly the same type of incident at roundabout with a similar sort of layout (other driver was not a learner) back in 1976. I lost he ensuing claim. As have you. Learn from it and move on.

superlightr

10,676 posts

221 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
The road arrows are strange. Both point ahead !? with lane 2 ahead and right.

As lane 1 and 2 both point ahead - neither give either lane an option to turn left thus it could be argued that the road markings are incorrect and thus the arrows must infact allow the 1st exit - which then follows that as both lane 1 & 2 have the same arrows both lanes allow (not only allow but require) the 1st exit and you must be allowed to use both lanes.

If the L driver was not taking the fist exit then they should be in lane 2 and follown the ahead and right arrow. ie right

I had a similar collision on a roundabout in Sussex A27 lane 1 and 2 were Left arrows and lane 3 ahead and right only. I was in lane 2 going left on the A27. A car in lane 1 didnt turn left and when ahead and collided with me. Other ins co paid out in full as other driver totally at fault. We used google to prove the road layout.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Fontwell+Park+Race...

You didnt say if the L driver was taking the 1st exit or going straight over? I presume they went straight and thus could be argued they are in breach of the road arrow for their lane.


I think it was not sensible not hanging back a few more seconds untill you both had moved away from the RaB and clearer lanes.



Edited by superlightr on Monday 12th March 11:27

SmoothCriminal

3,150 posts

157 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
op is clearly a moron if he thinks he isn't at fault for that accident.

In the wrong lane.
Driving too close to a learner.

The arrows in your lane have straight and right not left! And the learner is perfectly correct in being able to go straight on at that roundabout.

I hate retards like the op who can't use roundabouts but then try and blame the other party or go 50 50 because they can't drive.

Raddors

427 posts

106 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
See video - spot Audi dash, looks at profile, confirmed.

There's already alot of anti-Audi driver action on here. That hasn't helped...

Sorry OP but thats all you. The L plate means give them a wide berth.

Iain XR4i

1,703 posts

110 months

Monday 12th March 2012
quotequote all
I agree with everything that everyone has said, but would also question your judgement in thinking that this was a good place to pass a learner driver?

They are just starting out on their motoring life and don't have the years and miles of experience that we do, so it is sensible to hang back, give them a little extra room and only pass on a nice straight stretch of road where they won't be quite so intimidated.

As a separate query, why do you feel the need to have a camera recording your and other drivers actions?

awager

204 posts

185 months

Monday 12th March 2012
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Your fault mate.
The only dodgy bit (apart from your driving) is the personal injury claim.


Ekona

1,589 posts

160 months

Monday 12th March 2012
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I would say that the OP is at fault, however those road markings are truly appalling and have (almost) as much to blame as the OP in causing the accident. I do have sympathy, but as a rule you should never be in the right lane when you want to turn left.