Retrospective taxation campaign
Discussion
Countdown said:
Singlecoil
I don't believe that people who earn enough money to be looking at complex tax schemes are stupid enough to believe this was 100% legit (even if the Scheme organisers said it was). You don't get very wealthy by being very stupid.
They must have known it was dodgy, therefore the decision to take part in the scheme was a gamble. They hoped that HMRC would go away OR that HMRC would lose any legal challenge. HMRC didn't. They lost the gamble
I don't think it's really a question of stupidity, it's possible to be very clever about some things, and easily misguided by others, especially if the people doing the misguiding are clever at that particular line of work. If there is a big reward offered by the misguider then that can tip the scales. For instance, old, rich (and clever) guys marrying young women and then being surprised when 5 years later when the woman leaves taking a big piece of his money with her. Everybody else knew but he didn't.I don't believe that people who earn enough money to be looking at complex tax schemes are stupid enough to believe this was 100% legit (even if the Scheme organisers said it was). You don't get very wealthy by being very stupid.
They must have known it was dodgy, therefore the decision to take part in the scheme was a gamble. They hoped that HMRC would go away OR that HMRC would lose any legal challenge. HMRC didn't. They lost the gamble
This was not a scheme that you would be sold door to door, or over the phone. You'd find out about it, and then contact a company if you were interested.
One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
JustinP1 said:
This was not a scheme that you would be sold door to door, or over the phone. You'd find out about it, and then contact a company if you were interested.
One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
These are precisely the questions that should be asked of every financial inducement to rearrange your finances, before undertaking any changes. Unlike Bank advice and Insurance advice where the FSA provides a modicum of ineffective supervision, there is NO supervision whatsoever in Taxation advice. Unless you use the Services of a Chartered Accountant or other insured professional. Which the promoters of these schemes were not.One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
I very much doubt if any Chartered Accountant would get involved in this sort of offshore gamble, because they would know that the Inland Revenue would move every obstacle to outlaw such schemes, as this, if in fact there was ever a hope of success, which I doubt even further.
Like Singlecoil, I regret the losses suffered through following inappropriate advice for UK residents. However as in all gambles you can lose. That is what happened here and I presume the losers have learned a lesson. All the glitters......
coyft said:
Steffan said:
I very much doubt if any Chartered Accountant would get involved in this sort of offshore gamble, because they would know that the Inland Revenue would move every obstacle to outlaw such schemes, as this, if in fact there was ever a hope of success, which I doubt even further.
They just take their introducers fee. Obviously not refundable just as the scheme operators fees aren't.Countdown is correct, however I suspect they would have put caveats in their advice that this was "untested".
I AM a chartered accountant, and I've still got no sympathy for people like this. Agree with the post on p.1 that tax evasion is the other side of the "sponging benefits freeloader with 6 kids" coin.
I AM a chartered accountant, and I've still got no sympathy for people like this. Agree with the post on p.1 that tax evasion is the other side of the "sponging benefits freeloader with 6 kids" coin.
JustinP1 said:
This was not a scheme that you would be sold door to door, or over the phone. You'd find out about it, and then contact a company if you were interested.
One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
^^This^^One of the two questions I had for the scheme when researching it was:
1) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you indemnify me for the tax? Answer - No.
2) If this scheme is deemed illegal - do you give me back the money I paid you? Answer - No.
That to me wasn't a money back guarantee, or IMHO were these people duped. In fact, everywhere where I saw these schemes, none of them offered any cast iron guarantee, and they all mentioned that they were not infallible.
In fact, 'hard sell' wasn't there at all - in fact the opposite. When I looked at various offshore schemes a few years back, mostly on the IOM, I got given very fair telephone advice, even so much as telling me that for my relative modest five figure income it was simply not worth the cost or the risk!
It always amazes me how otherwise intelligent people leave their crtitical thinking skills at the door over financial matters. The people peddling these schemes are no different to the snake-oil salesmen of the 19th century Wild West.
What baffles me is that if the IR/HMRC were truly of the opinion that the arrangements were not kosher why did they sit on the fence so long? Leaving it in that limbo and thus forcing Parliament to act was a craven abdication of responsibility.
One thing it won't change is that the super rich will always find a way of not paying tax. Can't allow second class ticket holders to use the first class carriages.
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