Gatso and police car
Discussion
tvrgit said:
I know exactly what I am thinking of. There are no sensors for headlights or emergency beacons on UK traffic signals. Myth. Busted.
So you think they put expensive flashing lights on all the emergency vehicles for fun? Why do you think the AA van lights use slower light (yellow)? It is because they are the fourth emergency service and only the top three are allowed to cause greening at the junctions through their blue (faster) emissions.I know it works, I have seen it, but you are quick to dismiss despite my first hand proof? It is important to get the timing spot on, MAIN beam, temporarily turn off your turn signals and fog lights to avoid confusing the sensor and it's primitive CPU (486 maybe?). If you are learning the dark art you can start flashing slow then speed up gradually, when the light goes amber then you are nearly there just keep it at that rate until you get the big green and foot down! And then you have learnt the rate for that particular traffic light they are all different it sometimes changes to stop people abusing the system. It is best for beginners in clement conditions with light breeze.
TheInternet said:
tvrgit said:
I know exactly what I am thinking of. There are no sensors for headlights or emergency beacons on UK traffic signals. Myth. Busted.
So you think they put expensive flashing lights on all the emergency vehicles for fun? Why do you think the AA van lights use slower light (yellow)? It is because they are the fourth emergency service and only the top three are allowed to cause greening at the junctions through their blue (faster) emissions.I know it works, I have seen it, but you are quick to dismiss despite my first hand proof? It is important to get the timing spot on, MAIN beam, temporarily turn off your turn signals and fog lights to avoid confusing the sensor and it's primitive CPU (486 maybe?). If you are learning the dark art you can start flashing slow then speed up gradually, when the light goes amber then you are nearly there just keep it at that rate until you get the big green and foot down! And then you have learnt the rate for that particular traffic light they are all different it sometimes changes to stop people abusing the system. It is best for beginners in clement conditions with light breeze.
I have designed and configured a couple of hundred sets of traffic signals over the past 30-odd years. I configured and installed one of the very first of the "modern" microprocessor traffic signal controllers in 1980 or 81. I also wrote a program to configure a primitive computer (C64 I think) to plug into the controller as a handset, because the signal company thought they could hold us to ransom every time we needed to change something.
"Configuring a controller" means setting up 25 pages or so of information to program the PROM. Two of those pages deal with sensors. You have to tell the controller what every sensor does - that is, which push button calls each green man, which MVD calls or extends which green phase or stage (and by how much), which detectors are for speed discrimination, which detector is for the "autodim" function (the don't shine so brightly at night), which sensors are for bus "hurry call", reacting to transponders.
There is nowhere - NOWHERE - to configure a sensor that detects flashing lights, blue ones, white ones, yellow ones or multicoloured ones emanating from close encouters of the fourth kind. None.
There are also a number of pages to configure UTC inputs - ie demand and reply bits, and what each of those means in terms of controller operation and timing. Again, nothing to configure flashing lights.
That's my limited first hand experience.
Your turn.
tvrgit said:
There is nowhere - NOWHERE - to configure a sensor that detects flashing lights, blue ones, white ones, yellow ones or multicoloured ones emanating from close encouters of the fourth kind. None.
I must extend the courtesy to believe you are telling the truth, and would suggest that if it is the case that your company is not offering a product with all the features of your rivals then your business may well receive a red light from its customers, and no amount of flashing will help you in the murky world of council contract negotiations.The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
TheInternet said:
I must extend the courtesy to believe you are telling the truth, and would suggest that if it is the case that your company is not offering a product with all the features of your rivals then your business may well receive a red light from its customers, and no amount of flashing will help you in the murky world of council contract negotiations.
The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
I don't work for a supplier, I work for clients using equipmentt from all suppliers.The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
All controllers must conform to DoT spec and IEEE specs. The configuration forms are the same for all suppliers. None of them offer (or can offer, within the specs) the feature you mention.
It doesn't exist in the UK.
tvrgit said:
TheInternet said:
I must extend the courtesy to believe you are telling the truth, and would suggest that if it is the case that your company is not offering a product with all the features of your rivals then your business may well receive a red light from its customers, and no amount of flashing will help you in the murky world of council contract negotiations.
The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
I don't work for a supplier, I work for clients using equipmentt from all suppliers.The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
All controllers must conform to DoT spec and IEEE specs. The configuration forms are the same for all suppliers. None of them offer (or can offer, within the specs) the feature you mention.
It doesn't exist in the UK.
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Right I'm going to bite this time, I have seen you mention this before but resisted, please tell us what you mean as I was trained and pass that training to others within the ambulance service in Scotland that we have an exemption in law to treat a red light as a stop and give way as do the other emergency services? In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Gary
tvrgit said:
TheInternet said:
On some traffic lights, particularly at crossing junctions you can see a sensor on top looking down the road, it is scanning away. This detects the flashing light emitted from the emergency vehicle, and if it agrees the flashing is at the right rate it will hasten up the cycle to green. So, if you can flash your headlights at the right rate then the lights will be fooled into thinking you are a police car and green you.
It is cool and works, I do it most of the time when I come up to a red light, even in the daytime, and sometimes you find people on the other side of the junction do it too then it changes double-quick, and that's really cool when you are all flashing away at the sensors, maybe all four cars at the junction, all eager like hungry hungry hippos, who's gonna get greened? My uncle (HGV) says it doesn't work but it's all about the flicker you do, must be MAIN beam, and you have to account for if you are approaching the traffic lights at speed and adjust, also fog/rain/squally showers etc.
Not this again...It is cool and works, I do it most of the time when I come up to a red light, even in the daytime, and sometimes you find people on the other side of the junction do it too then it changes double-quick, and that's really cool when you are all flashing away at the sensors, maybe all four cars at the junction, all eager like hungry hungry hippos, who's gonna get greened? My uncle (HGV) says it doesn't work but it's all about the flicker you do, must be MAIN beam, and you have to account for if you are approaching the traffic lights at speed and adjust, also fog/rain/squally showers etc.
Traffic lights in the UK have no sensors that can pick up headlight flashing or emergency vehicle lights. Popular urban myth, but not true.
There are a set of traffic lights bear us that if I flash the headlights on approach they seem to green almost immediately. If I don't I often have to wait a prolonged period.
Elroy Blue said:
I'm a Police Officer. Traffic lights do not change for us. There are no widgets , flashing or otherwise that change them to green.
You're not reading hard enough Elroy. The lights have sensors which detect the degree to which a car's driver and front-seat passenger's arches have dropped. If the sensor detects entirely flat feet then it knows there's a police car waiting and the lights will change. Similar systems exist for Fire Engines but they work on the basis of detecting pornography and window cleaning equipment.jaf01uk said:
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Right I'm going to bite this time, I have seen you mention this before but resisted, please tell us what you mean as I was trained and pass that training to others within the ambulance service in Scotland that we have an exemption in law to treat a red light as a stop and give way as do the other emergency services? In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
Gary
The story goes that I was on an Advanced Driving course arranged by West Yorkshire Police (circa 1993). The officers were telling us about the rules that they as Police Response drivers have to obey.
The rules were explained that an Officer may not legally pass a red light, but the rules that West Yorkshire at least) apply are that they do pass red lights if two officers agree that it is safe to do so (hence stop/slow, check, agree clear, proceed). If in the course of doing this there is an accident, the driver is open to prosecution for potentially dangerous driving etc. We told that the same applies for the other emergency services.
It was said that the problem being experienced was at the time more and more Police Motorcyclists were being put on the road, and particularly if alone rather than in a pair there was no second officer to make the agreement.
He did tell us that a Postman delivering a declaration of war could however ignore the red light.
Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 said:
Significance of light signals..
36.(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b) when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
<..snip..>
36.(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b) when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
<..snip..>
SS2. said:
Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 said:
Significance of light signals..
36.(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b) when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
<..snip..>
36.(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b) when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
<..snip..>
If in doing so the vehicle causes another to slow (as in Give Way) does that then put the emergency vehicle outside the realms of the rules?
daz3210 said:
How do they do this?
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
In the UK there are laws about permitted people passing a red light. And the emergency services are not actually included, so I doubt this is actually the case.
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 said:
Significance of light signals prescribed by regulations 33 to 35
36.—(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a)subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b)when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
36.—(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—
(a)subject to sub-paragraph (b) and, where the red signal is shown at the same time as the green arrow signal, to sub-paragraphs (f) and (g), the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;
(b)when a vehicle is being used for fire brigade, ambulance, bomb or explosive disposal, national blood service or police purposes and the observance of the prohibition conveyed by the red signal in accordance with sub-paragraph (a) would be likely to hinder the use of that vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used, then sub-paragraph (a) shall not apply to the vehicle, and the red signal shall convey the prohibition that that vehicle shall not proceed beyond the stop line in a manner or at a time likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of any vehicle proceeding in accordance with the indications of light signals operating in association with the signals displaying the red signal to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident;
daz3210 said:
tvrgit said:
TheInternet said:
On some traffic lights, particularly at crossing junctions you can see a sensor on top looking down the road, it is scanning away. This detects the flashing light emitted from the emergency vehicle, and if it agrees the flashing is at the right rate it will hasten up the cycle to green. So, if you can flash your headlights at the right rate then the lights will be fooled into thinking you are a police car and green you.
It is cool and works, I do it most of the time when I come up to a red light, even in the daytime, and sometimes you find people on the other side of the junction do it too then it changes double-quick, and that's really cool when you are all flashing away at the sensors, maybe all four cars at the junction, all eager like hungry hungry hippos, who's gonna get greened? My uncle (HGV) says it doesn't work but it's all about the flicker you do, must be MAIN beam, and you have to account for if you are approaching the traffic lights at speed and adjust, also fog/rain/squally showers etc.
Not this again...It is cool and works, I do it most of the time when I come up to a red light, even in the daytime, and sometimes you find people on the other side of the junction do it too then it changes double-quick, and that's really cool when you are all flashing away at the sensors, maybe all four cars at the junction, all eager like hungry hungry hippos, who's gonna get greened? My uncle (HGV) says it doesn't work but it's all about the flicker you do, must be MAIN beam, and you have to account for if you are approaching the traffic lights at speed and adjust, also fog/rain/squally showers etc.
Traffic lights in the UK have no sensors that can pick up headlight flashing or emergency vehicle lights. Popular urban myth, but not true.
There are a set of traffic lights bear us that if I flash the headlights on approach they seem to green almost immediately. If I don't I often have to wait a prolonged period.
There is a set of lights near me that if I scratch my b
ks on approach they seem to go green almost immediately (the lights that is, not the bks...). If I don't I often have to wait a prolonged period, which isn't comfortable with itchy bks.However I accept that there are others on this thread more adept at b
ks than I am.Ok, I have never ever noticed lights going green for me as I approach with the blue n twos going. If anything they seem to go red just to make it that bit more difficult. 'Internet' it does not work and that is coming from someone that has the real lights going not trying to mimick their speed.
HOWEVER, I would pay to see someone wind down their window and make siren noises to make the lights change!
HOWEVER, I would pay to see someone wind down their window and make siren noises to make the lights change!
tvrgit said:
TheInternet said:
I must extend the courtesy to believe you are telling the truth, and would suggest that if it is the case that your company is not offering a product with all the features of your rivals then your business may well receive a red light from its customers, and no amount of flashing will help you in the murky world of council contract negotiations.
The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
I don't work for a supplier, I work for clients using equipmentt from all suppliers.The human brain is said to operate at around 200Hz, whereas a 486 runs at many MHz's. Thus the computer is able to evolve half a million times faster than you or I. Is it possible that some of the older traffic lights have rapidly evolved new software that makes them more suitable to their environment? Survival of the fittest may be applicable. Who would want to chop down a popular, friendly, GSOH traffic light on a thundery night during the wettest April since records began?
All controllers must conform to DoT spec and IEEE specs. The configuration forms are the same for all suppliers. None of them offer (or can offer, within the specs) the feature you mention.
It doesn't exist in the UK.
v. good the internet
Dave Hedgehog said:
i thought 6-10 sites shared 1 camera
No, it's too expensive to dig them up and replant them all the time. Besides which, with the current hosepipe ban, they can't be watered-in and will therefore die. 
tvrgit said:
There is nowhere - NOWHERE - to configure a sensor that detects flashing lights, blue ones, white ones, yellow ones or multicoloured ones ...
I'm sure that if there was ANY WAY to configure a sensor, there would be SOMEWHERE to do it. Streaky
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