Discussion
Just thinking about this difference in attitude thing. I think there was also less acceptance that paedophila even existed - I wonder whether people of my mother's generation thought for a moment that such a thing went on. Kind of an innocence / naievety. For example, I was sent off to a maths tutor aged 9 - I was dropped off at his flat and picked up an hour later. Speaking to my mother recently, she never for a moment considered that something untoward could happen. These days, how many of us would leave our child with a relatively unknown man without looking into their background?
Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
miniman said:
Just thinking about this difference in attitude thing. I think there was also less acceptance that paedophila even existed - I wonder whether people of my mother's generation thought for a moment that such a thing went on. Kind of an innocence / naievety. For example, I was sent off to a maths tutor aged 9 - I was dropped off at his flat and picked up an hour later. Speaking to my mother recently, she never for a moment considered that something untoward could happen. These days, how many of us would leave our child with a relatively unknown man without looking into their background?
Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
Were you assaulted by the bad man? No, didn't think so. I wonder if he just moved away.Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
The 'paedo on every corner' scenario suits the real perpetrators of vile child abuse. They are of course, the very people that children should look to for their protection, their parents and relatives.
If we were serious about child abuse in this country we would shift the focus fron sports coaches and single men walking in a park, to parents, but that would be far too uncomfortable.
Oakey said:
jith said:
If he is guilty of this, I want to see hard evidence and I will be absolutely astounded if this is the case.
J
'Hard evidence' such as what exactly? Do you think he filmed what he was doing? How about this from his own autobiography?J
[Savile] writes of an incident at the Mecca Locarno ballroom in Leeds, where he worked as a DJ during the 1950s, when a female police officer came in with a photograph of “an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home”.Savile writes: “‘Ah,’ says I all serious, ‘if she comes in I’ll bring her back tomorrow but I’ll keep her all night first as my reward’.” He then writes that the girl did go into the club and “agreed that I hand her over if she could stay at the dance, [and] come home with me”. He wrote that he did then hand her over to the “lady of the law…[who] was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go I would probably take half the station with me”.
From Bill Wyman (Mandy Smith, 14) to Jimmy Page (penchant for 14 year olds), it was almost like part of the scene.
Just look at the age groups of the girls on X Factor fawning over the male singers, or One Directions fan base average age....if you are in that industry and you like them young...its easy pickings.
miniman said:
Just thinking about this difference in attitude thing. I think there was also less acceptance that paedophila even existed - I wonder whether people of my mother's generation thought for a moment that such a thing went on. Kind of an innocence / naievety. For example, I was sent off to a maths tutor aged 9 - I was dropped off at his flat and picked up an hour later. Speaking to my mother recently, she never for a moment considered that something untoward could happen. These days, how many of us would leave our child with a relatively unknown man without looking into their background?
Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
I was talking to some old school friends a while back and we were reminiscing about stuff, then we got talking about the weird PE teacher Mr M*****, he was a funny chap, really nice and he's sometimes let his 'special' boys (the best footballers he reckoned) have sips from his hip flask on cold days playing football at half time. Nothing that serious about that, but then we were saying about how he used to get us into the showers by walking around with a rolled up towel and 'whipping' it at our naked bums... we could remember giggling at the time, it 'seemed' like fun...but looking back, there's no way a middle aged man should of been doing that. He was a very touchy feely kinda guy as well...we all sort of talked about him, then all went quiet, then peered off into the near distance....and after a short silent pause we started talking about who was best at football....Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
Edited by decadence on Friday 5th October 09:18
I had a chap working for me a few years ago who everyone felt uncomfortable being around. He was in his fifties and when we had a christmas do and our other half's came he brought along a very young girl who never said a word to anyone all night. We all assumed she was his daughter but it turned out she was his girlfriend. Someone jokingly said to him, as the alcohol took hold about kiddie snatching and he, now well into the booze, said he really preferred young girls 'cos you can whack it up their arse and tell 'em it's normal. Always made me wonder............
Breadvan72 said:
daz3210 said:
... I did say that homosexuality is better accepted now, whereas pedophilia is still wrong.
Just to be clear, homosexuality was never wrong, only illegal. Look at the damage that law did, in cases such as Alan Turing's and many others. We have indeed moved on. My Gran will never accept it, she still to this day insists it is wrong. Later generations however accept it far more. In fact many of my friends and acquaintances are open about it. I do however find myself somewhat uncomfortable sometimes when the affection between said friends is open and public. But as we said earlier, times change.
Pedophilia on the other hand...... well the thought simply makes me go extremely cold.
Breadvan72 said:
daz3210 said:
... I did say that homosexuality is better accepted now, whereas pedophilia is still wrong.
Just to be clear, homosexuality was never wrong, only illegal. Look at the damage that law did, in cases such as Alan Turing's and many others. We have indeed moved on. How many people who seemingly "accept" homosexuality, actually dislike it but display a different public persona to appease the legal requirements?
That is the problem of trying to legislate something out of existence, without first altering the public's ingrained attitudes!
Same thing applies to race. You might deter somebody from hurling racial abuse in the street - but if they still THINK it, they will act in secret.
I went to a private school back in the late 1980’s early 1990’s, where the deputy head used to make sure you were all clean and watch you in the showers after the rugby matches, and used to use a piece of wire to whip you, and towel flick you.
He also used to invite the 1st team boys back to his house after a match for a few shandies and food. There would have been about 12-13.
Was he a pedo, no not as I know? Nobody has ever mentioned it on the facebook page and nobody I went to school ever said a bad word as he was a nice guy who was a passionate teacher.
It was a different era that he came from and do I think it is a bit weird now, maybe in comparison to modern ‘pedo-terror’ world, but it was inappropriate, maybe but nothing more, and i think saville was the same.
He also used to invite the 1st team boys back to his house after a match for a few shandies and food. There would have been about 12-13.
Was he a pedo, no not as I know? Nobody has ever mentioned it on the facebook page and nobody I went to school ever said a bad word as he was a nice guy who was a passionate teacher.
It was a different era that he came from and do I think it is a bit weird now, maybe in comparison to modern ‘pedo-terror’ world, but it was inappropriate, maybe but nothing more, and i think saville was the same.
decadence said:
In Savilles defence, if you dug around enough famous people within the music industry past, you'd find what he was doing was no worse than most bands of the time.
From Bill Wyman (Mandy Smith, 14) to Jimmy Page (penchant for 14 year olds), it was almost like part of the scene.
Just look at the age groups of the girls on X Factor fawning over the male singers, or One Directions fan base average age....if you are in that industry and you like them young...its easy pickings.
Erm, that's not a 'defence'.From Bill Wyman (Mandy Smith, 14) to Jimmy Page (penchant for 14 year olds), it was almost like part of the scene.
Just look at the age groups of the girls on X Factor fawning over the male singers, or One Directions fan base average age....if you are in that industry and you like them young...its easy pickings.
Breadvan72 said:
You gran's atavism is her problem. Why on Earth should you be uncomfortable about two people expressing affection? If you are not bothered about straight people doing this, then you also are displaying prejudice. Some people are gay. Deal with it!
To be honest, even straight people I sometimes think 'for the Lords sake, get a room'.Holding hands isn't a problem, looking lovingly at each other not a problem. Eating each others faces - stop it!
I guess some of the cause is that I am straight. So, man + woman is 'normal' to me. I find it easier to accept woman + woman than man + man. Probably because I can see the reason for attraction to a woman, whereas it is somewhat more difficult to understand how someone can be attracted to a man. Like I say, I have many friends (male and female) who are openly gay and proud of it. I wouldn't consider myself prejudiced.
Oakey said:
decadence said:
In Savilles defence, if you dug around enough famous people within the music industry past, you'd find what he was doing was no worse than most bands of the time.
From Bill Wyman (Mandy Smith, 14) to Jimmy Page (penchant for 14 year olds), it was almost like part of the scene.
Just look at the age groups of the girls on X Factor fawning over the male singers, or One Directions fan base average age....if you are in that industry and you like them young...its easy pickings.
Erm, that's not a 'defence'.From Bill Wyman (Mandy Smith, 14) to Jimmy Page (penchant for 14 year olds), it was almost like part of the scene.
Just look at the age groups of the girls on X Factor fawning over the male singers, or One Directions fan base average age....if you are in that industry and you like them young...its easy pickings.
IIRC the age of homosexual consent was 21 until quite recently and I'm sure people were prosecuted for homosexual sex with 16/17 year olds. Technically they were offences but in retrospect is our judgement anything like as harsh? I gather a number of offences which are no longer on the statute books mean that some people will have their criminal record wiped (buggery is the one I read about recently). That's quite an interesting one to get your head around, so to speak.
Isn't the age of consent in Holland 13?
I vaguely remember a lot of fuss in the papers some years ago (20 years ago?) about the dutch legalising child sex.
At the time I was living with a dutch girl and she was really angry about the uk tabloid coverage - she said that the law change was more about acknowledging that sex was possible at the young age and making it possible to prosecute people for child rape.
At the time I was living with a dutch girl and she was really angry about the uk tabloid coverage - she said that the law change was more about acknowledging that sex was possible at the young age and making it possible to prosecute people for child rape.
TooLateForAName said:
I vaguely remember a lot of fuss in the papers some years ago (20 years ago?) about the dutch legalising child sex.
At the time I was living with a dutch girl and she was really angry about the uk tabloid coverage - she said that the law change was more about acknowledging that sex was possible at the young age and making it possible to prosecute people for child rape.
I'm not surprised. Given our record on under-age pregnancies, the paedo on every corner obsession and our general schoolboy level sniggering approach to discussing anything sex-related, we're hardly in a position to lecture anyone.At the time I was living with a dutch girl and she was really angry about the uk tabloid coverage - she said that the law change was more about acknowledging that sex was possible at the young age and making it possible to prosecute people for child rape.
decadence said:
miniman said:
Just thinking about this difference in attitude thing. I think there was also less acceptance that paedophila even existed - I wonder whether people of my mother's generation thought for a moment that such a thing went on. Kind of an innocence / naievety. For example, I was sent off to a maths tutor aged 9 - I was dropped off at his flat and picked up an hour later. Speaking to my mother recently, she never for a moment considered that something untoward could happen. These days, how many of us would leave our child with a relatively unknown man without looking into their background?
Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
I was talking to some old school friends a while back and we were reminiscing about stuff, then we got talking about the weird PE teacher Mr M*****, he was a funny chap, really nice and he's sometimes let his 'special' boys (the best footballers he reckoned) have sips from his hip flask on cold days playing football at half time. Nothing that serious about that, but then we were saying about how he used to get us into the showers by walking around with a rolled up towel and 'whipping' it at our naked bums... we could remember giggling at the time, it 'seemed' like fun...but looking back, there's no way a middle aged man should of been doing that. He was a very touchy feely kinda guy as well...we all sort of talked about him, then all went quiet, then peered off into the near distance....and after a short silent pause we started talking about who was best at football....Given that said tutor left the school literally overnight a few years later and nothing was ever said about it, I wonder whether I had a lucky escape.
Edited by decadence on Friday 5th October 09:18
Blimey, all that sport I've played over the years. I've only just realised that the changing room banter was masking the fact that we were all paedos or victims of paedos. I'd never thought of any of my assorted sensei, rugby coaches, team-mates, PE teachers, squash partners, etc as perverts but clearly I've been completely blind to it. I can think of a couple of occasions when our music teacher came in to the changing rooms to talk to the PE teacher so clearly he was at it as well!
The fact that no-one has ever made an allegation of anything beyond being smacked on the arse with a towel just proves the power these pervs hold over us. A kind of paedo-illuminati at work? Same with just about every girl I've ever talked to. Every one of their PE teachers was a lesbian! They know, not because they were physically assaulted, but because these women spent a lot of time in the changing rooms 'looking at them!' Feck knows why, in many cases.
The fact that no-one has ever made an allegation of anything beyond being smacked on the arse with a towel just proves the power these pervs hold over us. A kind of paedo-illuminati at work? Same with just about every girl I've ever talked to. Every one of their PE teachers was a lesbian! They know, not because they were physically assaulted, but because these women spent a lot of time in the changing rooms 'looking at them!' Feck knows why, in many cases.
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