Free Speech (in the UK) an Oxymoron?
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
XCP said:
Fine. Cause offence. Just don't break the Public Order Act. That seems a reasonable way to behave to me. 
Well, to me S5 should be restricted to actions. Speech is too close to thought for my liking....Seems writing it down is more offensive than kicking the crap out of someone in a racist attack;
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/c...
no jail time..... unbelievable.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/c...
no jail time..... unbelievable.
Astounding, a history of violence, an unprovoked attack, and no jail time.
From the article it would easy to assume she had been drinking, though it does not actually say so, that being the case jail would probably be better for her unborn as at least it would not have alcohol forced into its system.
From the article it would easy to assume she had been drinking, though it does not actually say so, that being the case jail would probably be better for her unborn as at least it would not have alcohol forced into its system.
The custodial sentences imposed on people tweeting or wearing t shirts look all the more absurd in the light of this. That woman's children have little chance of escaping a life of crime and dependency themselves, and would arguably be better off in care. My cousin has adopted two children from a terrible underclass background. They are very scarred and very challenging, but she is gradually improving their lives.
Breadvan72 said:
arguably be better off in care.
Evidence is, I fear, scant in support of that analysis.Breadvan72 said:
My cousin has adopted two children from a terrible underclass background. They are very scarred and very challenging, but she is gradually improving their lives.
Very commendable, and by far the best solution IMO.Of relevance to free speech is the decision of the Court of Human Rights that a man sacked because of his membership of the BNP had his rights infringed.
Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
Breadvan72 said:
Of relevance to free speech is the decision of the Court of Human Rights that a man sacked because of his membership of the BNP had his rights infringed.
Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
I thought it was enshrined in law that you couldn't be sacked on the basis of membership of any political party. And whilst folks may not like the BNP, that is exactly what they purport to be. OK, some of their views may be extreme, but they are entitled to them as much as the next man surely.Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
At present, English law does not treat political opinion as one of the protected characteristics in respect of which employment protection arises without a qualifying period of service. That was the issue in the case.
A political opinion does not fall under the religion or belief protection.
A political opinion does not fall under the religion or belief protection.
Breadvan72 said:
Of relevance to free speech is the decision of the Court of Human Rights that a man sacked because of his membership of the BNP had his rights infringed.
Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
Wonder where that leaves the Police with its ban on BNP membership? Much as I deplore the BNP, and the hateful views of its supporters, I agree with the decision.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.a...
Breadvan72 said:
At present, English law does not treat political opinion as one of the protected characteristics in respect of which employment protection arises without a qualifying period of service. That was the issue in the case.
A political opinion does not fall under the religion or belief protection.
Very interesting. Like I said, I was of the firm belief that there was a protection already.A political opinion does not fall under the religion or belief protection.
Does the courts decision now make this effectively law within the UK, or can another employer take the same action and force it through the courts again?
Police: That might still be OK, because of the role performed by the police. Membership of an organisation which espouses inequality on ethnic grounds would be inconsistent with the performance of the job. The bloke in the case was just a privately employed bus driver, who could probably have been transferred away from work that might involve dealing with members of ethnic minorities.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 8th November 11:15
But surely membership of an organisation, while potentially giving a good idea of how someone may behave, does not automatically make them a thugs who would go out bashing those of a colour they do not like, or likely to refuse to interact with the same.
Sometimes I do think that the BNP have some good idea's, as I think (usually more often admittedly) some of the thoughts of the more mainstream parties are equally good. Does that make me a bad person in that I would obviously go out and bash coloured people? Some of my best mates at Uni were of asian descent. They were decent law abiding guys and gals, who had a rounded attitude towards British life. Some did not drink/eat pork etc, because they were religious, and we (as in the circle of friends) accepted and respected that. There were others, of the same religion, who could drink me under the table. The religious ones, while not agreeing with it, accepted it.
What we have to realise is that not everyone believes the same as we do, and there are good and bad in all walks of life. As for the term racism, I feel it a badly conceived term, after all, are we not every one of us a part of the 'human race' regardless of where we come from? Or is that another concept where I am somewhat off track?
Sometimes I do think that the BNP have some good idea's, as I think (usually more often admittedly) some of the thoughts of the more mainstream parties are equally good. Does that make me a bad person in that I would obviously go out and bash coloured people? Some of my best mates at Uni were of asian descent. They were decent law abiding guys and gals, who had a rounded attitude towards British life. Some did not drink/eat pork etc, because they were religious, and we (as in the circle of friends) accepted and respected that. There were others, of the same religion, who could drink me under the table. The religious ones, while not agreeing with it, accepted it.
What we have to realise is that not everyone believes the same as we do, and there are good and bad in all walks of life. As for the term racism, I feel it a badly conceived term, after all, are we not every one of us a part of the 'human race' regardless of where we come from? Or is that another concept where I am somewhat off track?
daz3210 said:
Sometimes I do think that the BNP have some good idea's, as I think (usually more often admittedly) some of the thoughts of the more mainstream parties are equally good.
Careful - you're coming perilously close to admitting that you agree with some Tory party policies. Surely you don't want people to think you're some kind of political nutcase?Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
Careful - you're coming perilously close to admitting that you agree with some Tory party policies. Surely you don't want people to think you're some kind of political nutcase?
I'll freely admit that I do agree with some of the concepts.There are others however that I think are totally silly.
Breadvan72 said:
The bloke in the case was just a privately employed bus driver, who could probably have been transferred away from work that might involve dealing with members of ethnic minorities.
My understanding was that his work record was exemplary- why not just leave him to carry on as he was?RH
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